Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Chris Kreuzer on May 25, 2012 at 1:44am

HELP!!!! Please!!!!  

How I must programm the 3DR 20A ESCs with the original 850KV motors an APM2??  

Battery type??

Cut Off mode??

Cutoff thresold??

start mode??

Timing???

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Permalink Reply by James Friend on May 25, 2012 at 3:07am

Hi Chris

I would leave all on default except timing. Default timing is low (according to documentation with ESC's) - make it medium.Improved stability for me.

Other defaults are:

Battery type default is LiPO (I assume you're using LiPO? )

Cutoff is Soft

Cutoff Threshold is medium as far as I remember. You could make this high for maximum battery protection I suppose.

James

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Permalink Reply by Chris Kreuzer on May 25, 2012 at 4:49am

Ok....

Timing high is not possible?

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Permalink Reply by Norman Sanchez on May 25, 2012 at 5:54am

Configuration used by me in my octoquad, 8x850kv turnigy 10 apm bat lipo 2650 10x4.5

brake of

battery: nixx. increases the flight duration of the battery, drop. alarm. visual and auditory

cutoff type. soft cut

cut off volt: low

start mode: normal

timing: low

govermor mode: off

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Permalink Reply by Norman Sanchez on May 25, 2012 at 6:19am

Words taken from rc grup. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1097355

applies to practically all multicopter with programmable esc.

For multicopter use and good performance the standard ESC's must have a manually configurable throttle range calibration for the best performance. Do not use ESCs that have "auto-throttle calibration". They will not work well on multicopters and will cause excessive drift, uneven motor startups and unequal power.

Set the standard ESCs for brake and governor mode off, LVC off if available, start = normal, soft cut-off, NiMh, low voltage. *Yes you did read it correctly Set NiMh even though we use lipos! Reason: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1411 andhttp://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=32).The caution to keep in mind even when you set NiMh is that it does a voltage test when you first power on, so you must always use a full lipo or it can still cutoff if it drops below the calculated percentage of power on voltage. The best practice is to use the FCB's built-in alarm if it has one or separate lipo balance charge connector type alarm and then set your Tx to alarm two minutes before the lipo alarm sounds that you can carefully find out during a low hover battery flight test. The reason is you want to have at least enough reserve power for a safe landing. It takes a lot of power to arrest a descent, especially if you have a heavy model. When a lipo alarm sounds it can sometimes mean "land now!". Older and weaker lipos should be retired early from being used in expensive multicopter builds. For motor timing, you won't notice a huge difference between low, medium and high timing as this setting is for motor efficiency. If your motors stutter when starting or click excessively, and the motor timing is set to high, then drop it to medium or low. Most leave it on medium timing with good results. A few ESCs have another setting called PWM Frequency such as the AEO ESCs, Mystery Blue and Red Series and YGE ESCs that can be set to 16khz vs.the typical 8Khz. The 16Khz setting on ESC's will eliminate the ringing that annoys most Gents at the 8Khz setting. Be absolutely sure to do the ESC throttle calibration. The ESC throttle calibration is very important for the best stable multicopter performance. ESCs that have auto throttle calibration are not suitable for multicopters. For good performance in multicopter use, the choice of standard off-the-shelf ESCs must have the feature of manual throttle calibration. This only needs to be done once during the initial setup. This is usually accomplished by connecting each ESC to an Rx channel 3 throttle and then powering the ESC with motors attached and props off, then powering the Tx with the throttle stick full up, wait for a beep, then throttle stick full down.

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Permalink Reply by Emin Bu on May 25, 2012 at 6:23am

very useful post as usual,thanks Norman...

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Permalink Reply by Emin Bu on May 25, 2012 at 6:20am

what is diference btw. timing low,medium,high...my turnigy plush is on high should i change this?

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Permalink Reply by Norman Sanchez on May 25, 2012 at 8:47am

Low end punch comes from mechanical timing and the over-rev comes from timing boost/advance in the esc. adding timing is basically increasing the kv of the motor .. higher kv gives ya the rpm's and lower kv gives ya torque. ... boost/advance helps most on motors in the 17.5 range and as the turns go down the boost/advance has less effect exept for creating heat .. best to just swap motors for a different kv rating that suits the track conditions better and regear the motor and propeller. changing the timing is equivalent to rotating the brusshes agle in a brushed motor.  Higher timing add some reactive power consumption and lead to more current draw and higher Kv as well(lower efficiency)  high timing is for high pole count motor like outrunners.  for high speed inrunner motors go with lower timing.  I use low time. has given me good results, some-time use all depends on the tolerance of the esc and motor. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1097355#post12906859

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Permalink Reply by Norman Sanchez on May 25, 2012 at 9:38am

Important beginner NOTES on ESC set up :  Read this before connecting any ESC !!

• DO not connect the ESC back to front - ie reverse polarity - You will smoke it!
• Make sure to solder all ESC wires with Flux Paste (Not flux core solder) - a bad connection (a loose fitting connector)  or dry solder joint(no flux) - will cause the ESC to burn/fail and the motor to possibly burn as well.  Check all wiring with a DMM first.
• Use gold connectors and extra long banana plugs - do not trust factory installed banana plugs on cheapo brushless motors - remove the heat shrink on any Hobby King Motors or rc-timer motors (or any clone) and remake the joint  properly using flux paste.
• During first throttle up power check - concentrate - if the motor hesitates or stutters - or the prop twitches back and forth - IMMEDIATELY cut power (throttle OFF) - investigate for a broken wire in the motor - a shorted wire in the motor (mounting screw ruptured the windings) - a shorted connector or insulation cut  - or anything blocking the motor from turning (a screw from your work bench trapped inside on the magents).
• to reverse the direction of rotation of a brushless motor exchange any 2 of the 3 motor wires
• Use a power meter to ensure you are not overloading the ESC at WOT (full throttle for the prop) - ESC works hardest at mid throttle - so it's useless to think that if you don't fly full throttle you won't overheat the MOSFET because you are not using all the amps - completely opposite - the ESC will overheat if the kv of the motor is too high for the props used.  You must do a WOT check and make SURE at full throttle the MAX amps are 22amps or less !!!!!
• For MultiCopters - Use an external switching uBEC - after throttle calibration of the Tx range 1095/1500mid/1905 and also the ESC learning curve - then remove the red wires and apply heat shrink.
• the most common causes of engine failure are
  • ingestion of FOD (foreign object damage) dirt, dust, stones or debris which can enter the motor during take off and landing - causing trauma (cuts) to the windings or insulation of the windings, damage to bearings
  • breakage of one or more of the internal lead-in stator winding wires by stress (pulling of the wires during ground handling or assembly) - can be caused in incorrectly handling a motor, crash impact tension, carry the craft by gripping the motor assembly wires causing a break inside a motor.
  • magnetic variation - de-magnetising of one or more magnets by placing the magnets on or against other motors/magnets or in magnetic fields - tapping against metal objects of the can of the motor - this partial de-magnetisation can cause the ESC to overheat the engine because the timing cannot be accurately determined by the ESC. Thermal run-away - engine overheats because it is effectively overloaded - Copter is too heavy.  Overheated magnets are permanently ruined.
  • dry-joints or inconsistent  loose push-connections/soldering between an ESC and a motor leading to timing faults - if one of the three connections is loose or not 100% soldered correct - Should you observe ANY motor hesitation or stutter on first power applied 10% throttle - immediately cut power - do not Power-up further or you will blow the ESC  - DO NOT FLY especially relevant for long wiring runs or self soldered joints - USE solder paste - use a Digital Multimeter DMM to check all 3 wires show the same Resistance in ohms - check the wires for breakage or shorts.  Save your ESC by careful observation of problem indicators.
  • Shorting of any motor wire(s) internally to the metal/carbon booms or too the airframe- INSULATION of ALL WIRES annd joints is vital.  - short of the insulation from sharp carbon edges not filed smooth during construction - leading to timing problems or stuttering - Should you observe ANY motor hesitation or stutter - DO NOT FLY - replace the motor /wires/ESC as applicable to the fault - Beginner fault to observe AN INDICATOR - such as hestition then continue to fly - delibrately blowing the ESc - leading to failure and a crash - Pro-Pilots discontinue flight/Land at the slightest hint of a problem - because they realise that warnings are only given once. 
  • Poor bearing maintenance lubrication and/or exposure/ingress of abrasive dust leading to bearing breakdown

   it's VITAL to monitor the temps of all engines on the post-flight check, avoid operations where FOD. dust is a risk and keep motors padded in transport.  It is also recommend to ground the aircraft and 100% locate the cause of any abnormal performance item.

  Programmable setting recommended for Multicopters:  used by my xoctoquad    

  Brake Setting:brake disabled. 

  Battery Type: Ni-xx(NiMh or NiCd).      

  Low Voltage Protection Mode(Cutoff Mode): Gradually reduce the output power       

  Low Voltage Cutoff Protection Threshold (Cutoff Threshold): low      

  Start Mode: normal     

  Timing: low 

  
  
  http://www.multiwiicopter.com/gear-list/

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Permalink Reply by Peter on May 25, 2012 at 3:05pm

Norman thanks for such a detailed explanation it definately helps those of us new to electric flight.

 

Regards Pete

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Permalink Reply by Norman Sanchez on May 25, 2012 at 11:50am

These pictures show the configuration used by my
Turnigy Plush 10amp esc and 30amp. also the use in rctimersof 18amp, motor XAircraft 850kv, or rctimer 2830-14 850kv with accessories 10x4.5. the first I must stress that are very good with balance.I must emphasize that it is my configuration and it has worked well in all the models I have made. but not mean it is suitable for other models.

This is a standard of multicopteros.

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Permalink Reply by Lars Carlen on May 26, 2012 at 6:06am

Yesterday my hexacopter, APM2 and 2.5.5 finally were allowed to collaborate in their native element, Free Space!

I dared to take off and I could touch down on my local airfield.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qan8kpOOZjw&feature=g-upl 

Thanks for support

Lars

 

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