Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jake Stew on April 17, 2012 at 9:00am

Someone might want to look into this section of the FCC rules.  Perhaps a "Declaration of Conformity" is all that is needed.  Sure sounds a lot easier to stamp "This device complies with Part 18 of the FCC Rules." on each radio rather than try to have them certified.

Edit: Looks like maybe this only applies to receivers. Still worth looking at though, I didn't have the time to ready thoroughly.  

----------------------------------------------------------

Sec. 18.212 Compliance information.

(a) Equipment authorized under the Declaration of Conformity
procedure shall include the following compliance information in lieu of
the information required by Sec. 2.1077.
(1) Identification of the product, e.g., name and model number.
(2) A statement similar to the following:

This device complies with Part 18 of the FCC Rules.

(3) The name and address of the responsible party as defined in
Sec. 2.909 of the rules. This party must be located within the United
States.
(b) The compliance information may be placed in the instruction
manual, on a separate sheet, or on the packaging. There is no specific
format for this information.

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Permalink Reply by Jake Stew on April 17, 2012 at 9:21am

   The FCC rules are almost completely unintelligible, and will certainly give you a headache unless you have some special form of retardation that allows you to think they were written by normal human beings.

   I found an interesting link summarizing the rules though.  This is from Ti, who makes the main competitor to the SiLabs chip radio we use.  It's a little easier to read, although most measurements are still given in retard units.

   It also covers the European rules. 

-

ISM-Band and Short Range Device Regulatory Compliance Overview

http://www.ti.com/lit/an/swra048/swra048.pdf

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Permalink Reply by Allen Bishop on April 18, 2012 at 9:25am

Andrew:

Here is the document that describes more indepth the requirement for "Low Power / Non-licensed" transmitters. This is the FCC's published document and contains all the links to the appropriate sections in the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR).

Regards,

Allen

Attachments:

• FCC Low Power Unlicensed Transmitters.pdf, 911 KB

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DeveloperPermalink Reply by Andrew Tridgell on April 18, 2012 at 3:00pm

Thanks Allen!

If I've read that document correctly, it looks like you can transmit on 433, but only at 200uV/m@3m, which is around 0.012 microWatts (from top of page 18 and using conversion formula from page 29). That is 10000 times lower than the lowest power setting of the 3DR 433 radios.

Is that how you read it? (I'm assuming telemetry falls in the 'Any' category, not intermittent control signal or periodic transmissions).

Cheers, Tridge

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Permalink Reply by Jake Stew on April 18, 2012 at 11:59pm

Thanks for the info Allen!

Tridge, all you need to do is to program a cable locating feature into the unit and we should be good to go for 1 watt on 433mhz.

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DistributorPermalink Reply by Martint BuildYourOwnDrone.co.uk on May 4, 2012 at 3:53pm

Hello all,

 

I have been working away at this here in the UK / EU for a while now and still I find many dead ends...... :( The latest information I have been sent only confirms all I have found before or have been told by a number of people I speak with.....

 

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?itemId=107812906...

 

In short no one is willing to say that these radios can come into the UK / EU and be sold / used without the CE mark and supporting doc's being supplied to support these radios :( So it would seem to be that the only way forward is to have the radios tested and then have the CE mark applied to them.

 

Has anyone else had any other news, or seen another way forward with the 3DR Radios, as I have a number of customers asking me to sell them, however I can't at the moment..... Any other dealers in the UK / EU care to share how they have got around this issue and are stocking the radios for sale without the CE approval or paper work? I see dealers quoting the:

 

 "Please note that it is up to you to make sure you are allowed to use these radio modules in your country.  These devices can be used as short range licence expemp devices the UK under ESTI EN300 220, please refer to Ofcom IR2030 document, page 17.  You will need to configure the device to comply with your countries regulations"

 

However I can't see how this means the radios can be used here....... I hope someone has some good news :)

 

Regards

 

Martin. 

www.buildyourowndrone.co.uk

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Permalink Reply by Ted Gavinchuk on June 5, 2012 at 3:21pm

Has anyone found out any information regarding the 3dr in Canada.  I am looking at ordering, but my Canadian dealer won't sell them.  Is it just because they don't have a government stamp on them?  I am having a hard time finding much information on the regulatory side of this.  From what I can tell, the 900 version is still running on the ISM band.  And as far as certification goes what is the difference between this and some of the cheap vTx guys are using, some putting out 1.5 watts?Sorry for the questions, this one has got me confused.

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Permalink Reply by Jake Stew on June 5, 2012 at 3:53pm

Both versions are in the ISM band.  Based on how you use the 433 version it may or may not be operating legally.

I'm not sure how things are in Canada, but IME they are far less oppressive than the US government in most respects.  

The simple fact is that most people just ignore the regulations.  The chances of a narrow bandwidth, low power, frequency hopping radio like this causing interference to anyone is infinitesimal.  Thus your chances of being complained against are so slim as to not be worth worrying about.  Having someone complain is really the only possible way to get in trouble unless you're selling them in volume.

No cop knows anything about radio regulations and they're so complicated that even the regulators can't give a straight answer most of the time, and even when they do they're often wrong.

Basically I don't see how anyone could ever get into trouble.  The only people I know of that have gotten into legal trouble were up to no good (intentional jamming) or broadcasting shitty signal at hundreds of watts.

I've never had a cop ask an intelligent question about anything of the sort.  If they do just start explaining technical details about the radio until their eyes glaze over and they wave you on.

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Permalink Reply by Ted Gavinchuk on June 5, 2012 at 4:23pm

Thank you Jake, that is pretty much what I figured.  Fortunately I fly in a fairly remote area and radio waves are the least of anyone's worries around here.  Again there is such a low power output on these, no one will give much thought to them unless you are doing something stupid.

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Permalink Reply by Jake Stew on June 5, 2012 at 5:24pm

I should also point out that neither the Si1000, HopeRF module, or 3DR radio have any certification in any country that I'm aware of.  Yet there are probably millions of Si1000 based radios out there transmitting away with no trouble from anyone.

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Permalink Reply by Björn Geir Leifsson on July 6, 2012 at 5:29am

I got hold of some 433 modules now and look forward to testing them.

Having a (recently acquired) ham-license allowing me to transmit in the 430MHz band at power levels enough to cook chicken (500watts), I see no problem in using them other than the general requirement to transmit your call sign at the beginning, end and at regular intervals in any transaction. 

You have the LBT and other necessary features all lined up but not the call sign from what I can find. I wonder if the callsign can be included in some way in the packets so that I can honestly say to my critical ham buddies that I fulfill all my obligations when using these things.

Would that be something to add in the future??

73 de TF3BGL

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Permalink Reply by Richard on July 6, 2012 at 5:41am

I have been using the 433mhz radios in the UK, did my first proper flight with them last night, the range was not that good on the limited power output settings - I got around 300ft

United Kingdom3DR 433MIN_FREQ=433050 MAX_FREQ=434790 TXPOWER<=8 DUTY_CYCLE=10IR2030/1/10

What range are you expecting to achieve on full-whack?!

R

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