Comment by Paul Marsh on December 27, 2008 at 7:45pm

By the way, I just want to be sure that my comments are not misinterpreted. I was not criticizing this site, or any other, and actually meant to be complimentary to all of you. I came here knowing nothing about controllers and actually have learned a lot already, but have no idea how to put together a learning plan for myself, which is what I'm trying to do at this point.

Comment by Curt Olson on December 27, 2008 at 8:44pm

From what I've observed, just about everyone comes to the table with some knowledge and experience in one or more areas ... RC aircraft building, RC aircraft piloting, software design and coding, electronics design, packaging, control theory, etc. If you don't have an interest in at least one of these subjects, you'd probably be off doing something completely different. :-) However, I'm not sure if anyone here is really strong in every area. It would be a very rare individual anyway. So most people start with what they know and try to bluff their way through the rest. Or they team up with someone or a group with complementary skills (and still probably find a few areas the team is weak on.)

I find it fascinating to look at the systems put together by people who can't/don't write any code (especially because I'm a pretty decent software person.) There's some really neat stuff that people have done that works really well and all with virtually no coding. On the flip side, it is just as fascinating to see the systems put together by people with other strengths and weaknesses and to see how that affects their design choices and how they get around and compensate for the areas where they have less experience.

The end result is you get a myriad of different systems and combinations of airframes and hardware and processors and code and coding styles. Every choice has it's pluses and minuses. So no matter what experience a person brings to the table, no one here is a phd in everything, so the real joy is in spring boarding off what we know, getting a little help with what we don't know, and finding a way to put together a real flying system.

This is certainly a great place to ask questions, and as you dig in deeper and start to get an idea of how you might want to push forward, you'll be able to ask much more detailed and specific questions.

3D Robotics Comment by Chris Anderson on December 27, 2008 at 8:44pm

18 months ago, I didn't know a thing. Had never heard of a microcontroller, to say anything of programming one. My introduction to robotics was Lego Mindstorms with my kids, then Basic Stamp. Then Jordi turned me on to Arduino and then PCB design, which was a slow learning process but worth it. Everything I've posted here is just documenting my journey of discovery. (I'm not an engineer and the last time I programmed was in the 1980s.)

But there has never been a better time in history to teach yourself than today, thanks to all the resources (people and information) available online. Stick with it--a few magical moment when you first get a microcontroller to make a servo move or read a sensor are encouragement enough to plow through the frustrations.

Comment by Jack Crossfire on December 27, 2008 at 9:57pm

Robot Room
robotroom.com

The Kiwipedia page on PID controllers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller

Platinum Plus Visa card.

Playing hookie from the day job & avoiding professional advancement.

Random hints from blog readers.

Comment by wayne garris on December 28, 2008 at 12:16am

i started coding at age 9 on my vic -20 in basic . spent my childhood flying rubber powered models,moved to r/c in my 20s also in a local army surplus store hung a wwII vintage UAV . i wanted to build uavs ever since.

Comment by Paul Marsh on December 28, 2008 at 7:07am

Wow! I expected a little feedback, but this is great. Thank you very much. One of the thoughts I had in the back of my mind when posting was "So far it's been all take and no give from me on this forum." I hope to change that, eventually.

Just to address some of the points above:

Regarding what I bring to the table at this point, I have been flying model airplanes since I was 10 or so (U-control) and moved into RC in my teens (I'm 54 now). For anyone who might be interested, most of my experience is traced on my web site (www.poweredmodelairplanes.com). I actually write my web site in code, so that gave me some hope that I might understand controller code in time as well. Coincidentally, I had already asked my brother to team up with me on this project. He works for Moore Products, now Seimens, and does controller things for a living. However, he's 1,200 miles away and I still want to be able to do this myself.

Chris--I've read your on-line bio and had a feeling that engineering was not your first profession. Having come this far in 18 months is impressive. Like you, I will probably make my first hardware jump with Mindstorms (I already have the LabVIEW software from National Instruments). As I mentioned before, making a UAV from a "toy" fascinates me. However, don't be surprised when you see my order come through for an ArduPilot.

Jack:
robotroom.com; That's a new one, and I'll check it out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller; Been there, read that. But I'll read it again in more detail.
Platinum Plus Visa Card; Got one! Woo hoo. Sans "Plus" :(
Play hookie; Got laid off six weeks ago. Have lots of time to read. One of those good news/bad news things.

Finally, and for what it's worth, two things actually led me to find this site in the first place. One is simply my interest in RC planes and reading about Maynard Hill's autonomous flight across the Atlantic ocean. Ever since then I've known that a model airplane could fly under it's own control and with GPS guidance. I just never knew how and wanted to find out. Second, I wanted to use the concept of a model airplane UAV in a story I'm working on was doing background research. Now, I'm not an author, but my wife has been on my case for years to write. I've tried off-and-on and am trying again. She says young boys don't have enough to read out there, so I should try that. So, I'm trying. If I ever finish it, I'll post it here (so this is not a plug, to be sure). Anyway, here's a teaser:

Prologue

The little airplane was flying as steady as a rock. Well, maybe not that steady. Let’s just say it was flying very well and leave it at that. At the moment, its tiny little brain only knew that it was to fly in this direction, at this altitude and at this airspeed. In the background though, almost subconsciously, it was asking itself “Are we there yet?” The answer kept coming back “No.” “Are we there yet?” “No.” “Are we there yet?” “No.” And so it went, thousands of times each second. “Are we there yet?” “No.” “Are we there yet?” “No.”

“Are we there yet?”

“Yes.”

Now, if this were a car full of kids there would be a great deal of excitement indeed. But the little brain in the little plane had no emotion at all. That simple response told the airplane it was time to do something different. It had arrived at a predetermined point in space and it was time to go to work. The brain sent a signal to a servo. The servo, which is little more than a very small electric motor, turned the control arm on its head about 10º. That control arm was connected to another on the airplane’s rudder, causing it to swing left 10º. The plane slowly banked in that direction and began to fly in a very precise circle around a very specific spot. In the bank, though, it began to lose altitude. The little brain controlling the plane sensed this and sent a signal to the throttle servo, which then increased the speed of the engine and got the altitude back to where it was supposed to be. For ten minutes the plane flew in a circle, constantly checking and correcting its heading and altitude to make sure it stayed within a radius of 100 feet from the point it was circling. Only two people knew that the plane was there, and they were about three-quarters of a mile away—much too far to control the plane themselves. For now, the plane was flying itself.

Not only could this small aircraft control its own flight path, it could see as well. Its eye, which was located on its belly instead of its head, was looking down and to the left, directly at the spot on the ground that the plane was circling. The eye was actually a very small camera that was sending live video directly to those two individuals three-quarters of a mile away. What they were seeing with their own eyes on their laptop screen at that very moment was scaring them to death!
____________________________________________________

Well, there it is. I hope this wasn't inappropriate. I just thought I'd share where my interest is coming from.

Thanks again to all.

Paul

Comment by Alex on December 28, 2008 at 3:57pm

Hello everyone,
This is the place I was looking for a long time where I can talk & discuss my issues!
I am an undergrad student (majoring in EE, controls) and was working on a MATLAB based simulation of an autopilot for smaller personal aircraft (Cessna/Pipers) & I am done with it !
After looking into all these development (on this forum), I am thinking that I can demonstrate atleast few of controls on an actual manned aircraft (my cousin has one).
Basically I am looking forward to make an autopilot to maintain a constant heading (using VOR navigation). For safety reasons I don't want to mess around with throttle control, but I should be able to control ailerons & rudders servos easily !
Well, any feedback from this forum will be helpful, if I can use atleast microcontroller board (ArduPilot's) for my purpose and then move from there. Please suggest if anyone have any other opinion in mind.

Thanks to all for keeping this place most vibrant & interactive.

Alex.

Comment by Varga András on December 28, 2008 at 4:37pm

I guess VOR/DME gives the polar location from the beacon, ADF can give heading. For constant heading, use a gyro or a magnetometer.

Comment by Varga András on December 29, 2008 at 2:33am

USE GPS. NO MICROUAV USES THESE OLD RADIONAVIGATION SYSTEMS.

Comment by Alex on December 29, 2008 at 8:15am

Hi Varga, Thanks for commenting on my post.

Like I have mentioned above, I am working on autopilot for manned airplane (smaller planes such as Cessna or Pipers).
Do you think one Gyro & GPS combination should be enough i/p for heading/roll control ? I might be able to break into aircraft's aileron & rudder servos but not more than that ! So, my control surfaces are only those two.
Any further comments or suggestions are welcome.
Thanks,
Alex.
alex.uma2@gmail.com

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