Developer Comment by R_Lefebvre on August 13, 2012 at 1:36pm

Interesting.  I was on GLB last week, and saw they were selling a bunch of stuff and using the brand "APM2".  I thought that was interesting.  I know Chris has gone after them for calling them "Ardupilot", but APM2 is a bit harder to enforce since it's just an acronym?

I don't really get who's buying this stuff anyway.  You'd buy from a sketchy source to save $10?  Man people are cheap.

Moderator Comment by Mark Harrison on August 13, 2012 at 1:43pm

I think most of these vendors probably don't even know enough about what they're selling to know that they're violating the 3DR trademarks.

As far as regulating, they are required not to violate the trademarks, and I imagine ebay has a system for reporting this.  I know Chris has mentioned several times in the past that he's followed up on the trademark violations.

As to the pro/cons, it's an interesting question. 3DR seems to be going well, with lots of expansion recently.  Would they have been as successful with a closed-source solution which would give them stronger IP protection but less community-style growth?  That's hard to say, but it's definitely hard to pick out a closed-source autopilot with a community that's growing as fast or with as many talented outside contributors.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people inside of China (or in other markets where shipping from 3DR might be expensive or difficult -- imagine people without a credit card) might order from these vendors.

Moderator Comment by Sgt Ric on August 13, 2012 at 1:53pm

...and guess where they will turn for support?

 

Moderator Comment by Hooks on August 13, 2012 at 1:56pm

The only thing you Can dó is buy the real 3DR version. Having clone versions for the asian market is in it self innovative.
Open source = free to sell for profit in mind in chinese.
Not much to dó about it.

Comment by David M Eno on August 13, 2012 at 2:53pm

This is one of the clear downsides of open source software.  Ideally, people who care about quality will still buy from the developer, but it is also very likely that there will be very few if any significant quality differences between the products from the developer and the products of the copycats.  They might even, in some cases, be produced in the same factory.    

Also, don't expect ebay to do anything to do anything to really penalize anyone selling this stuff.  Ebay makes a lot of money off scammers, and so long as the coefficient of return is relatively low they don't care who sells what.  I went thru a protracted battle with ebay a few years ago over a Futaba GY401 Gyro.  I legitimately got scammed and got a fake. Still had to pay 30+ dollars to send it back to China by registered mail.  

If you go on ebay you will find that they are still selling ...

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1296848

The fact that this firmware is open source just makes it easier for them to produce a legitimate copy.  

   

Comment by Jason Wise on August 13, 2012 at 3:02pm

In a nutshell, Clones and all it brings I agree speeds up innovation, I mean look at a flat panel TV, all the brands have similar techs with different names, brand X brings out a tech, brand Y reverse engineers it calls it a different name and makes it better, consumer A has many choices, I mean before the 3dr radio option we only had xbee, the 3dr team took the product to the next level

Having someone copy what you have done, causes you to make something better, I work for a multinational brand and one product that constantly gets reinvented is battery tech, the key reason is to keep ahead of the counterfeit clones, counterfeit product are budgeted for in relation to market share

Some clone products such as this are dumb enough to use the same name and design, some just go straight to the source and rebadge the product(think new fatboy charger vs revoelectrix)

There are Patent wars left and right, Ultimately we the consumer benefit due to fast tech and also the lawyers who clip there ticket along the way

Comment by Jack Crossfire on August 13, 2012 at 3:11pm

That's the reality of open source hardware, just as it was for software.  Endless copying of 1 design, copying of names & reputations, the 1 originator being blamed for not supporting every clone.  Dave ranted about it after he rediscovered the problems.  I still get blamed for not supporting every clone of my software, using the same name.

So Chris & Nate have to focus on order fulfillment, support, & manufacturing instead of designing products.  There's currently huge free advertising from open source hardware, but if they did close off everything, it would take longer for the designs to get copied & there would be more of a budget for engineering & advertising. 

Comment by Todd Hill on August 13, 2012 at 4:50pm

i think everyone has made a valid point.  Personally,what's truly disheartening is the fact that a lot of manufacturing for 3DR products goes on here in the U.S.  This kind of innovation is not productive for our good ole boys down at 3DR.   Until wages balance China will have an unfair advantage.  Pay mind though that this is a listing on Ebay targeted directly at US consumers.  I think there is a case to be argued here with Ebay and similar online retailers.  Just my thoughts.   

Comment by Batbileg Batjargal on August 13, 2012 at 5:32pm

The wait times from diydrones is far more discouraging than the copiers are selling cheap.

Comment by Luke Olson on August 13, 2012 at 6:12pm

Clones are part of the open source hardware ecosystem and they're not going away. Despite the obvious cons there are also a lot of benefits if you look beyond the face value of the situation. Clones enable greater availability of hardware for other regions of the globe and also for a broader demographic. A brilliant kid in junior high school might be able to save up $300 to build a drone and eventually contribute back to the software development but at $700 or $800 it might not be as likely. Or another person who bought a clone could go on to help support other users with thousands of helpful forum posts. Depending on the manufacturer it might be a first generation thing and the next generation could bring some innovations and improvements to the design. 

Comment

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• 3
• …
• 7
• Next ›
• Page