Comment by ArileyS on August 10, 2012 at 1:32pm

You guys kill me sometimes. You're truly delusional if you think the Arducopter, or any typical DIY quad for that matter, can hold a candle to what Procerus has done. I think it's great that you guys are putting downward pressure on autopilot prices, but please don't get ahead of yourselves.

But hey, don't let me interrupt the absurd back patting that's happening here and at SUAS News.

Comment by ArileyS on August 10, 2012 at 1:41pm

Yep, delusional.

3D Robotics Comment by Chris Anderson on August 10, 2012 at 1:43pm

Ariely has a good point. We often ignore the superior engineering and sensors in the commercial designs, mostly because the flight features seem so similar to our own designs. The hobby-grade gear like ArduCopter uses low-cost MEMS sensors that cost a few tens of dollars, but there are much better sensors that cost hundreds or thousands of dollars. I don't know what Procerus is using, but I wouldn't be surprised if were that. 

The difference shows up in reliability and repeatability, which is key in commercial applications.

Developer Comment by R_Lefebvre on August 10, 2012 at 2:07pm

I don't know... looking at the components that we CAN see, which appear to all be COTS, I don't have any real reason to believe the bits I can't see are anything special.

Developer Comment by Mark Colwell on August 10, 2012 at 2:21pm

I bet the imager is at least $10,000 USD and not available to public.

Comment by ArileyS on August 10, 2012 at 2:37pm

What's special in any autopilot, be it $100 or $1000000, MEMS sensors or not, is the code. No offense, but you guys tend to overestimate what you've done and underestimate what's been done before you. Procerus' quad is a decade in the making, and it shows in the autopilot. Keep cranking, but don't for a second believe you're anything but years away from matching the Kestrel 3.0 and the resulting performance of this quad system.

3D Robotics Comment by Chris Anderson on August 10, 2012 at 6:46pm

Ariley: You may be right, but how do you know? Have you seen the Procerus code? Last time we interviewed Reed Christensen from Procesus about the Kestral autopilot, he said the first version of that autopilot just used PID loops (not full sensor fusion algorithms). The more recent version introduced the standard Kalman/DCM style sensor fusion, but it was interesting to learn how similar the techniques were to what were already used by Paparazzi, APM, UAVDevBoard, GluonPilot and other open source autopilots.  We've been at this a long time, too ;-)

Comment by ArileyS on August 10, 2012 at 8:13pm

Chris, I've used both products. I've watched both closely over the past five years or so. You guys have a long ways to go, particularly on the hover side of things. I don't say this to be mean, and I sincerely hope you prove me wrong sooner rather than later. Procerus' products are priced absurdly, but that doesn't change the fact that they're the gold standard for small UAS.

You guys may prefer "visionary to delusional" ... I prefer humility to unearned arrogance. I suspect it might do you good to see an Arducopter go head-to-head with the new Procerus system in some real-world missions, but I won't hold my breath on seeing that happen. Keep up the good work. Seriously.

Developer Comment by R_Lefebvre on August 10, 2012 at 8:13pm

I'm also curious what Ariley *knows* about the Procerus and what it's capable?  Is it just assumption?  Or is there more info available somewhere I haven't seen.

Developer Comment by R_Lefebvre on August 10, 2012 at 8:15pm

Simul-post...

So, Ariley, you've used the Procerus?  You mention hover performance.  What exactly does it do better?  What is the measureable?

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