My solo flipped and destroyed the propellers on my first attempt  at flying it. Contacted solo .they wanted my logs I sent them 3 times and have been waiting for days to hear from someone at solo. After paying $1500.00 for the solo, I'm starting to get a little p'd. Can anyone tell me what to do?w

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I'll take that as a vehement personal attack but I doubt the mods will do anything about it. My concern is only for customers and attacking people is more indicative of the attacker than the target.

But, since you are asking - here are some very recent flips. Keep in mind this is not based on 100's of thousands of birds, but a very small sample....

http://www.3drpilots.com/threads/solo-flipped.4749/

(one guy has a flip - coincidence that others chime in and say it happened?)

http://www.3drpilots.com/threads/problem-solo-flips-on-auto-land.4418/

A colleague of mine tested a Solo - and, guess what? It flipped on landing and displayed other similar behavior (usually will not turn off and drifts away).

Here is another - very recent - new bird sent to guy for review. Lands...then drifts away (similar behavior)..skip to 3:00 in video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL4lXTuikgA

This guy is on his 2nd (I think more now) and it flipped on the 2nd flight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PfpRRGS7Mw

So - you have your opinion and I have mine. Speaking of your opinion, could you share it? Do you claim Solo does not have this particular problem of flipping on landing? 

Oh, and mods - please remove the personal attack above if you would.

@Craig, what percentage of Solos would you say have experienced flipping on takeoff or landing not due to user error?  'Not trying to antagonize, I just want to get a feel for your actual perspective and your response could enlighten others (that way we can get a feel for whether the Solo actually has/had a legitimate problem, or whether it's being blown way out of proportion from personal bias or erroneous perception).  

In conjunction with this, what percentage of, say, iPhones have hardware manufacturing defects that cause the phone to function other than as intended?  I don't know what it is, but I'm sure it's more than a couple, you could even characterize it as "a lot", like 1,000+.  But in the grand scope of things, it's absolutely statistically immaterial and is not representative of the product as a whole.  Maybe the malfunction frequency for solos is greater on a % basis as compared to iPhones (please keep in mind the comparison is intended to be failure rate-based, not volume-based)?

"Not sure what is causing it as it seems to be pretty rare."
"I've never had it happen until yesterday either. Been flying my Solo since June of last year. Strange."
"Logs??" No answer...

Reviewing a drone right next to a child? Yeah... credible guy!
Wow you got a video from September? And you say it's recent? LOL

If it is your opinion then say that it is only your opinion and not a fact! But I know you better than that, you do it on purpose, you love to be deceptive. Want to see another example? Here your "opinion" again: " Keep in mind this is not based on 100's of thousands of birds, but a very small sample...." Like you had any actual info on the sales!

Well, 3DR has an entire decision tree about it, so I guess they don't agree with you about it not occurring.

https://3dr.com/kb/solo-flipping-over/

Enough that 3DR has KB info on it:

https://3dr.com/kb/solo-flipping-over/

Hmm...percentages are tough. But when a relatively tiny community (like at 3DR Pilots) regularly posts examples of it- and then others chime in on the same thread that it happened to them, it of concern.

Granted it seemed much worse - at least the veering away part - back at the start of Solo production. Two of the guys I know who bought early models had the flip/veer/bunny hop scenario. Of course, those are very small samples...

There could be multiple things causing this. I always suspected a hardware problem (mounting of IMU, etc. etc. etc.) - since it hasn't stopped despite many software upgrades. But there are so many inputs and outputs to the "decisions" these flight controllers make that it's almost impossible to pin down. After all, if it was easy to fix - 3DR would have found and fixed it long ago. No one in their right mind can deny that it is happening at a rate far above what it should (given 2015/2016 drone evolution).

Statistics are hard because drones - to make basic "consumer grade" have to have incredible reliability due to the number of flights taken by the owners combined. So if it happens 1 in 1000 flights that's vastly too high of an incidence.  It's an aircraft, not a phone - and a aircraft flipping and running the propellers is a heck of a lot different than your iphone having a burp. 

To add to that, it appears that in many cases the motors do not shut off! Even if one were to not buy the statistical argument, it is unacceptable for the motors and props to grind away. 

My original point remains. Problems with flipping, veering, hopping and loss of control on landing is not unheard of with Solo - and is, in fact, reported quite often. The entire point of my comment then goes back to "if 3DR knew what it was - from the logs of the first ones that did it 8 months ago - wouldn't they have fixed it?". Or are so many systems at play that they are unable to really get to the root of the problem?

A couple recent Amazon reviews note the same behavior:

"I have flown my Solo 5 times; the last 2 ended in a crash. Both times, the drone just started flying away from a still position." 

"This is what happen when I press takeoff from the controller, the drone flipped over.

Solo has no security measures for when the drone flips over. This drone is marketed as an intelligent drone, but it fails to be secure.

The controller became unresponsive, the on/off button wouldn't work, I had to take off the battery of the drone to stop it.

This drone is dangerous, I wouldn't recommend it for anyone."

Both of those are 2016.

Anyway, it's a known problem. 

It's possible that manual takeoff and landing may mitigate this tendency.

Matt:
I checked the database, including trouble tickets and logs. Out of 60,000+ vehicles in that database, there have been a total of 48 incidents of flip on landing or takeoff, all but 8 of which were on landing. Most were diagnosed after discussion with user as landing on an obstacle or sloped surface that caused the land detector to fail.


Autostop of props after crash detection was added last year, and is working well.


Needless to say, beta testers of unreleased software are not included in this database.

Most of my landing and takeoff crashes have occurred because of GPS Doppler.  This happens when a known good satellite is blocked and bounced off an object.  You say so what.  Well the satellite sends a time code with each signal and that time code is used to calculate your position on the ground.  When it gets bounced it is delayed by several microseconds and when the GPS receiver gets this satellite signal it calculates a new position.  This position is now several meters away from where it was, hence the flight controller responds by moving in the opposite direction sometime very quickly to correct for this position change.

After looking at some of my logs I have seen where the GPS position has changed by over 100 meters in one direction in a mater of seconds.

If I use a GPS mode I make sure it's in an open area.

And since when does having a troubleshooting page has anything to do with having anything wrong with Solo landing? Do you want me to post again the P3 manual saying that you can't fly over water?

"Statistics are hard" - wrong! Statistics are simple, you just need the knowledge and, most importantly, the data! Of which you don't have any.

@Michael,

GPS Doppler or GPS multi-path syndrome has been resolved 10+ years ago.

If your GPS still features multi-path error, try to replace it to one free from this syndrome.

3D vortexilation vs. 2D triangulation can offer multi-fix in parallel, if a number of satellites is above 5, since data from every 4 can be selected to calculated 3D fix.

Try to let your GPS to plot fix for 1-5 minutes, not moving it, using metal obstacles, to emulate multi-path to discover if your GPS is prone to multi-path syndrome.

Visit website of Ublox and read Ublox GPS manuals, technical specifications.

Flipping is generally due to Ground Effect ( described earlier).

Smart controller should pre-warm up every motor and every ESC (FETs) since msc control delay to one motor can easily flip your drone.

Take off is generally performed in VTOL mode, so GPS is not involved.

The same for landing (VTOL mode to avoid obstacles on the ground).

As in casse of professional helis, motors, electronics, ESCs should get pre-warmed

and propellers should idle freely on the ground to let pilot to detect monitored incorrect frame vibrations if any.

If you risk flipping, taking off at initial motors' RPM = 0, you can let motors to idle on the ground at RPM > 0 and then take off, as exactly in case of professional helis.

To avoid multi ESCs to be  controlled in a loop, resulting in microsec trust / lift force delay on a particular motor/propeller on take off, every ESC should get timed take-off command as a single command (ESC clocks should be synced).

But pre-warming and motors idling before take-off should solve the problem of flipping

on take off.

On landing, if landing altitude is detected/ preset, drone should switch into Landing Mode, disabling GPS input and throttle should be controlled via IMU.AccelZ input,

to limit AccelZ and keep around > 0+  ( G offset), to deccelerate drone to land smoothly

Generally, a number of landing modes should be precalculated and preloaded to avoid Ground Effect ( landing on the grass, sand, asphalt ...)

Anyone who thinks GPS is a solved problem, clearly has not used GPS in real world applications.. Most of the techniques used in hand help GPS devices and on cars to improve the accuracy, fall apart when you fly in a 3D environment with vibrations and add EMI from other devices.

GPS by design is one of the least robust sensors we have on a UAS, and sadly the one we rely the most on.

who flies with GPS in the middle of the city gets problems,
who RTL on and a house stands in the way of having problems
who has not dealt with the engineering problems

most people have never flown a quad without briefing there problems. without GPS support can these people do not fly,

We have equipped more than 60 determines Copter with a flight control of 3 DR,
The copter be used commercially. the customer receives a comprehensive briefing, and flight training
we have no problems, no crash.

The flight control of 3 DR are safe

Uh, KB entries are made to solve problems which exist.....

You are being quite silly. They don't create pages with troubleshooting about flipping - just because they have nothing to do.

But if you want to do a little counting - here is a link for you. This is one small web forum which probably contains less than 5% of Solo owners (if that). 

I don't have the time to count the instances, but it certainly looks like quite a few.

http://www.3drpilots.com/search/651536/?q=Flip&o=relevance

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