I need some advice on where to start twaeking the PID's to get rid of the toilet bowl effect I'm experiencing


Arduflyer 2.5, flies lovely and smooth just how I like it, spider style quadcopter frame 3.01 firmware

In both LOITER and RTH In a mild wind (approx 7mph) the quad starts getting into the toilet bowl and continues to get worse if left, leave it too long and it gets really wild in RTH


Anyone know what PID's to change to start with ?


Thanks in advance

Views: 14685

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Just to update

I tried adjusting the LOITER PID from 1.000 to 2.0000 but it had no noticable effect

When the wind drops the quad loiters and rth perfectly

The devs can correct me on this, but AFAIK toiletbowling is to do with Magentometers, and getting the declination right.

What was the result of your compassmot, and have you added anything since?

What's a compassmot ?

Yes I added my FPV gear after having done the compass calibration so maybe I shoudl recalibrate it, however it did loiter and rth very well indeed when the wind dropped, I'd assume that if it was a compass issue then it would exhibit the same problem wind or no wind ?

I never had toilet bowling before doing compassmot. After compassmot, it does... does that make sense? Compassmot yields close to 60%, so I'm going to order the external compass.

you have it right. 60% is waaay too high. An External Mag should help if you cant move your APM away from wires and esc's

Regarding Copmpassmot, Clearly you need to RTM.

Here you go :


About the wind issue, possibly right. If it worked with no wind, and not with wind, it does sound that your Nav PIDS need tuning. Perhaps its not classic toiletbowling, but just incorrect PIDs fighting the wind.

Do you have a variable POT on your radio? Try some dynamic tuning, ususally the easiest way for me.

Ahhhh crap

Looks like I have a major problem with mag interference

Found out how to run the compassmot and it's telling me 184 - 202% !SHOCK!


I will try to completely rewire my ESC's, re-route the wires to see if that helps but I suspect it's yet another APM that's going to go in the old unused electronics bin, the quad is quite small so not much room to create seperation between components

I was getting so excited about having this up and running, such a shame

Looks like after all the benefits of having everything on one board is a complete waste of time as the system seems to be devolving into seperates now (GPS, Compass, what next ?)

Dont Bin it Terry, Get an External Mag, and Stick mount it - problem solved.

Also, when you re-wire, Twist the wires where you can, you will be amazed what a difference that makes.

I do appreciate your help and advice Wessie, however it should have be "problem solved" when I paid more money and switched to 2.5 instead of 2.0 as it had a seperate GPS, now it seems we also need a spereate compass and I'm fairly confident there will be something else after that too

Before you know it we'll be told that actually what you need for accurate loiter and RTH is a very long stick and a piece of string tied to the camera :)

So all the other THOUSANDS of people running 2.5's on varoius other frames just got lucky?

APM performance relies HEAVILLY on how YOU put your frame together. This IS a diy project, so its not about simply plugging it in and expecting miracles, but the thrill is in the challenge of how to get it right to YOUR satisfaction on YOUR particular design or frame.

If you look at the DJI equipment, they too seperate the IMU and GPS from the controller.
Dont lose sight that the APM is a constantly evolving and improving platform. At one time everyone thought floppy disks were the best way to store data.

Technology moves on...things change..  You can either be washed away by the wave, or you can grab a surfboard and enjoy the ride. Your Choice.

And there was me thinking you was trying to be helpfull Wessie

Point is that I know an APM requires programming and tweaking for different frame/motor/esc combinations etc, but no amount of software tweaking is going to solve a hardware issue and that's the real point, the hardware sold simply isn't fit for it's intended purpose, not the 2.5 nor the 2.0

Just look at the description of the 2.6 on DIY Drones store or the RCtimer version etc, it's claimed that the 2.0 and 2.5 were suitable for multirotor use yet the 2.6 suggests that multirotors require a GPS and compass that are seperate from the main board

So basically the hardware was released and sold before it was fully tested

There is nowhere on the sales page for the product at RCTimer or DIY Drones which suggests the item being sold is a product in developement that will/may require hardware modification in order to function as claimed

Yes technology does move on, I don't see how that has any bearing whatsoever on the discussion at hand, so why was it that at a time when DJI (you brought them up first) were using a seperate GPS/compass unit that the Arudupilot went the other way and then has started to move BACKWARDS having discovered that their design and product does not funtion as required/sold

I can also "grab a surfboard" and surf over to product that actually works can I not ?, maybe without the denegration of small minded brainwashed buffoons having a dig


By the way, just because THOUSANDS were sold does not mean there are THOUSANDS that are fully functional with accurate loiter and rth on multirotors, in fact I challenge you to find me 10 videos demonstrating these "lucky" people as you call them

I'll add some criteria to that...

APM 2.0 or 2.5, multirotor, mild breeze/wind up to 8mph accurate loiter and rth within 5m would do


Oh and as for your RTFM statement...

The manual was read, unfortunately they add stuff to the manual constantly, the example of fitting a seperate compass being an obvious one that was added long after the product was purchased

I really WAS trying to help by pointing you in the right direction Terry. Sorry if it did not come accross that way. 

To make things clear then.

1. YOU upgraded to version 3.X voluntarily

2. YOU decided to NOT READ even Warning #1 on this page.

3. YOU decided to not watch the compassmot video on the same page, otherwise you would not even ask" what is compassmot?

4. YOU then blame the hardware, the Devs, and everyone else

5. YOU then kick someone who is trying to help in the nuts.

I own several Naza's, and a Wookong too, in addition to my APMs.

Perhaps Naza is then the right product for you. Good luck with that. they NEVER flip or do weird things for no reason.

Remember that people who are happy with their product, are out there flying. Generally only people who are having issues complain about it on support forums. (most of them even manage to not insult the people who are trying to help). I am here because the DIYD community has helped me sort out many issues over the last few years, and I though I would try and pay it forward by addressing some of the "issues' on the forum I felt I was comfortable answering.

You will certainly not receive any further advice from this small minded brainwashed buffoon.

Moderators: Sorry if this turned out to be a rant, but is how I see things. Too many users do not follow instructions, then blame everything and everybody else when it does not work as expected.

Buffoon out!

Reply to Discussion


© 2020   Created by Chris Anderson.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service