LiPo batteries are difficult to deal and maintain, Can I use Li-ion batteries?

Views: 5683

Replies to This Discussion

I have been using Li-Po's for about 4 years on my drones. They work well and last a long time if you have a good balance charger. Just charge at 1C and be patient.As far as Li-ion I can't answer about the use in drones.Maybe somebody else will respond with that information.

Good Luck.

I used a good balancer to charge but after flight battery got inflated.

Thanks for your response.

sounds like you ran the voltage too low.

All batteries age.  They will puff up near the end of their life cycle (or a flight that abuses them).  You can tell age by how much shorter your flight times are.

LiIon can only be used on highly efficient ships that draw less than about 2 amps per series (so 4S < 8 amps to hover).  They seem to age better, but suffer the same problems as LiPo.

I'm guessing that LiIon will not work for you unless you are into ultra-light and lower speed.  LiPo is probably best for you. Welcome to the variable (expendable) costs of flying quads.

Li-ion are a viable option but as Forrest says the lighter the better- this is true of all aircraft and batteries though...
With current li-ion technology most uavs work well, we find with our packs that we get roughly double the mAh for the same weight of lipo, with no issues with current draw. A good li-ion pack should last 500 cycles minimum, roughly compared to 100 for a lipo (this is dependent on quality and use). We can manufacture many different sizes and shapes to fit most aircraft. As an example, our standard 4s pack gives 9000 mah with 60 amps continous current and weighs 540 gms.
What type of aircraft are you flying? In my Skywalker I find I need to leave 40% of the mAh in the Li-ion pack or I don't have enough thrust for a safe go-around. However this is still a 20% improvement over the lightest 10C lipos.

I have a xcopter and I want to use general power tool battery in it instead of Custom LiPo. such as Milwakee M12.

If i did the math right, 9000 mah at 60 amps means a battery capable of 6.7 C.  The Panasonic NCR18650B is rated to 2C.  Are you using a different battery or are you saying that the Panasonic is under rated and can actually handle 6.7C?

Interesting, why there is no C rating for power tool batteries like Milwaukee M12 popular version?

Hi Forrest,
The Panasonic ncr is not a suitable cell for high drain use. There are four main li- ion cell manufacturers, two of which produce high drain cells for power tools and e-bikes etc. These cells are rated at 20 amps cont. discharge, which we have proved in our testing.
Be very wary of higher discharge claims from other companies, there is a massive market in re-wrapping b grade cells from the four main manufacturers with false claims of performance. Avoid Chinese resellers like the plague!
The primary reason that we use Lithium Polymer batteries instead of the Lithium Ion batteries is that our little flying friends can require very high amperage withdrawals at times. LiPo batteries can deliver the higher amperage loads where a LiIon battery is very limited as far as currents go. There are specific LiIon cells that can handle discharges up to 30 Amps at 3.7 volts but they are not the normals cell. It is possible to pull 50-60 amps at 11.1 volts out of a 2200 mAH LiPo cell without damaging the cell.
There is also the weight and size issues. For the size and weight there is little that can compare to the LiPo batteries we use. The standard 18650 LiIon cells that are common and cheap would require a package several times the size of my 3 cell battery that I use in my quad.
I just checked and the E-Flite 3s 11.1 volt 3000 mAH is labeled that it can support a maximum of 90 amps continuous. I work with batteries for a living and that is just incredible for its size and weight. Trying to use your Milwaukee tool cell (LiIon) just can't match the incredible loads our air craft need to fly.
Use a good charger and make sure that you balance all the cells in the pack you are using. I use a little plug in device that shows the individual voltages of the three cells (in my case) as well as the total voltage of the pack. It is a simple way to keep the battery as healthy as we can. Also buy a decent charger that can balance as well as just charge. The one I use also discharges the cells as well as balancing and charging. I cycle my new battery packs two or three times before I fly with them.
I hope that this helps with the battery questions regarding the LiPo and LiIon usage. Fly with LiPo and use the LiKon cells in your tools or telephones. Good luck!
Hello Martin and others,
I went to the DJI website here in the United States and it says that the Inspire 1 uses one of two batteries. The standard is the "Intelligent Flight Battery" TB-47 that is a 4500 mAH 22.2 volt LiPo 6S High Voltage Battery and it weighs in at 570 grams. The optional battery a TB 48 is just a 5700 mAH 6cell LiPo that weighs in at 670 grams. I did not see a single model of DJI's that uses anything but a LiPo battery at least not in our market here in the United States. If this is different "down under" than I would be very curious why they would use two different types of batteries in a standard product.
The High Discharge LiION batteries I am testing currently are supposed to last 10,000 cycles before wearing out according to the manufacturer. Our Tesla products made here are powered by the 18650 cells and they claim 10 years of every day cycling of over 50%.
The information I have read suggests that the current LiPo batteries are designed to last way more than just 100 cycles. liION cells are useful and have lots of places where they are commercially used, I just haven't seen one used by a quad. I also don't believe their cycling claims.
liPo cells should be taken care of slightly differently than LiION cells in that they are a bit particular in the way they are used. I have to balance even the two cell units I used in my ducted fan model jet or the life of the product will be cut short.
The charger I use is one that monitors the temperature of the cells while charging. This keeps them from experiencing "Thermal Runaway" which happened a lot in the early days of LiPo. I have not put my LiPo's in the flame proof bag in years and have never had a problem with one fortunately.
Lithium Ferrous batteries are becoming more popular and I use them in my 2 Motorcycles. They weigh less than a pound and are rated at 12Vdc. These cells will become used more widely in the years to come.
In the early days of model aircraft they used NiMH cells to power them, very cheap, very light and have a few of their own problems.
I did not mean to step on any toes but here in our market LiPo is the most popular method being used. Their weight, power output, cycling ability and cheap initial cost makes them an ideal choice for flying UAV's. To make them last you have to pamper them a bit more than a LiION cell when you charge and discharge them. Using a 2200 mAH 11.1 volt battery my Blade 400 will fly for twenty five to thirty minutes with my camera attached.
If the 5000 mAH battery were designed to put out 250 amps I am sure they could do it reliably. Any battery that is abused will self destruct. I have started cars with 3000 mAH LiPo batteries, one was a 7 liter, high compression Corvette engine. With proper care and wiring to suit it no problems. I will admit I did it in an enclosure just in case!
Good luck and May you have many happy hours flying your UAV's.


© 2019   Created by Chris Anderson.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service