Advise and help needed. Quadplane accident.

3691366881?profile=original

Hi, I am reasonably new at this and had a mishap with my quad plane yesterday. I am not at all proficient in the log analysis and would appreciate it highly if somebody with experience could look at the log and maybe advise me on what went wrong.

Firmware: Arduplane 3.8.4
Airframe: XUAV Talon 1718mm with 150mm wing extension each side
Power: Tattu, 10000mah, 6Cell, 22.2V, 25C
Pusher Motor: Maytech 3548-790-S, 790Rpm/V, 717watt
Pusher Prop: 11 x 8.5
Pusher Esc: Castle Creation Edge Lite 75
Quad Motors: 4 x KDE Direct 4012XF
Quad Props: 4 x KDE 15.5 x 3.5
Quad Esc: 4 x Castle Creation Lite 50.
Auto Pilot: Pixhawk with Power Block.
GPS & Compass: 3DR UBlox
Servo Rail Power: Separate 5 volt, 20 Amp Ubec

I took off in QLoiter and climbed to approximately 30 meters. Switched to FBWA and applied throttle. The transition was extremely smooth but soon afterwards almost seemed that when the quad motors stopped the rear pusher motor also stopped. Switch back to QLoiter and the quad motors started up and she stopped for a moment but then became completely unstable and gravity was declared the winner.

The parameter file is attached and the log file is available at: 

https://login.filesanywhere.com/Login.aspx

Log in Name:   mp@cointech.co.za

Password:        Cointech1

Best Regards,
Marthinus

Talon 23042018.param

You need to be a member of diydrones to add comments!

Join diydrones

Email me when people reply –

Replies

  • I've built a couple of quadplanes now and the issue of current draw during transition to forward flight seems to be an issue that requires careful planning. In one of my builds I went as far as separating the vertical lift motors off to their own circuit and use a 6S high C battery to keep the current draw down. I run the forward flight motor off a 4S battery. I've just finished helping a friend build an X6 where we used a single circuit and 4S. We are testing with a Nanotech battery which has a very high C rating. Here's some info on my older builds if interested 

    A Tale of Two Quadplanes

    A Tale of Two Quadplanes
    When a friend offered me a HobbyKing Dark Wing, I jumped at the opportunity to build my first quadplane. Being a bit smaller than an X8 and construct…


  • Marthinus said:

    Marthinus said: I think the major problem that happened is that if I calculate the max amps that all 5 motors draw it is about 180amps and the power board can only handle 60 amps. If you add the VCC 5 volt supply to the Pixhawk to the graph you will see there was a serious dip in the 5 volt and I believe that the processor reset.

    Nice job for motors mounting !
    Your quad motors have a good efficiency .

    During QLoiter hover, your motors required 33,4 A , 728 Watts , while taking altitude in QLoiter 39 A , 833 Watts.
    The plane motor with that propeller should use just 6,2 A to fly at 67 km/h - 18,1 m/s
    So in theory 45,2 A would be enough to make the transition , 40A if you are in hovering.
    Roughly even with full throttle at plane motor you should have , according to E-Calc, a total of  39+81 = 120 A .

    At transition  to gain speed from 5 m/s while your plane was in Qloiter, still taking some altitude , the Auto Pilot when the transition start  add 20 A because of  full throttle at RcOu.C3 so you reach 59A .
    That is an interesting point , in theory your plane motor should have draw much more Ampères at full throttle but it did not.
    The reason was that the  plane Esc  was starting to limit current because of low battery voltage ?

    My suggestion is to replace the battery with one with higher C rating and if you can start the transition to FBWA gaining some speed while in Quad plane mode to reach 10 m/s , it should help a lot to reduce current drawn.

    I do not think that the processor reset since you have no "holes" in dataflash log recording.

    5,2 Kg is quite a lot for the Talon even with wings extensions, it would be interesting to see how it flies when in FBWA mode and how much drag add the quad stuff.

    Advise and help needed. Quadplane accident.
    Hi, I am reasonably new at this and had a mishap with my quad plane yesterday. I am not at all proficient in the log analysis and would appreciate it…
  • 3702425097?profile=original

    1mm Carbon sheet machined and the bottom side sanded to be course. The wing area also sanded level and straight. Glued with epoxy resin.

    3702425292?profile=originalMachined 16mm clamps from alu and a m3 threaded strip from steel. The steel strip was glued to the bottom of the carbon sheet before I glued the sheet to the wing.

    3702425320?profile=original
    Motor mount same clamps but with a 2mm and 4mm carbon plate.

    The 16mm tubes are slightly flexible and next time I will use 20mm, very little difference in weight. The wings flex alot so I put a brace from the left front motor attached to the right front motor supported on the nose of the fuzz and that stopped all flexing.

    3702425208?profile=original

    This was after the crash, actually very little damage. I think the major problem that happened is that if I calculate the max amps that all 5 motors draw it is about 180amps and the power board can only handle 60 amps. If you add the VCC 5 volt supply to the Pixhawk to the graph you will see there was a serious dip in the 5 volt and I believe that the processor reset.
    Luc Maximilien said:

    Glad you did it !

    What is your AUW ?  4300 grams ?

    I'm curious about how you attach the carbon tube with  motors , can you show a photo ?

    Advise and help needed. Quadplane accident.
    Hi, I am reasonably new at this and had a mishap with my quad plane yesterday. I am not at all proficient in the log analysis and would appreciate it…
  • AUW = 5200g
    Will send some picture of mounts later.
    Have a good day!
  • Glad you did it !

    What is your AUW ?  4300 grams ?

    I'm curious about how you attach the carbon tube with  motors , can you show a photo ?

  • Dear Luc,

    Thank you for all the help. I install 2.0.25 for MAC and it works perfect. I appreciate your help.

    Luc Maximilien said:

    I use the 2.0.25  version of Apm Planner 2 on Linux Mint  and Windows 7 64 .

    The  available  32 bit version for Windows is not the latest and have some bugs.

    Advise and help needed. Quadplane accident.
    Hi, I am reasonably new at this and had a mishap with my quad plane yesterday. I am not at all proficient in the log analysis and would appreciate it…
  • I use the 2.0.25  version of Apm Planner 2 on Linux Mint  and Windows 7 64 .

    The  available  32 bit version for Windows is not the latest and have some bugs.

  • Dear Luc,

    I downloaded AP 2 and installed but receive the following error when I try to load the .bin file.

    3702425010?profile=original

    Luc Maximilien said:

    The graph was made with  Apm Planner 2

    The Rc3 output shows full  throttle command to the Esc but you gradually go to zero Amps so I think it was the Esc

    Advise and help needed. Quadplane accident.
    Hi, I am reasonably new at this and had a mishap with my quad plane yesterday. I am not at all proficient in the log analysis and would appreciate it…
  • The graph was made with  Apm Planner 2

    The Rc3 output shows full  throttle command to the Esc but you gradually go to zero Amps so I think it was the Esc

  • Dear Luc,

    Thank you for this information. I will download the log files from the ESC's and look what they did. What app/software did you use to create this graph?

    Luc Maximilien said:

    3702424651?profile=original

    Advise and help needed. Quadplane accident.
    Hi, I am reasonably new at this and had a mishap with my quad plane yesterday. I am not at all proficient in the log analysis and would appreciate it…
This reply was deleted.

Activity

DIY Drones via Twitter
RT @seesharp: I'm tuned into the PX4 / Dronecode free live conference. Great stuff. Microsoft AirSim talk in 10 minutes. https://t.co/0zbZ2…
7 hours ago
DIY Robocars via Twitter
RT @masato_ka: 距離センサを3つとESP32を付けたラジコンカーをDonkeyCarライクにNNで自動走行。3層FC極小モデルをTensorFlow Lite for microcontrollerで動かしてる。機体は借り物でRumiCarって言います。Tenso…
23 hours ago
DIY Robocars via Twitter
RT @SmallpixelCar: My car was able to go all the way autonomously until the crosswalk. It was only 100 yards from the target. What should b…
Saturday
Liam left a comment on Agricultural UAVs
"Hi
I'm Liam from T-MOTOR. I would like to reach out to see if there is any possibility for us to work together.
We are a propulsion system manufacturer who offers motors, propellers and ESCs for all kinds of drone applications which vary from secur…"
Jun 30
DIY Robocars via Twitter
RT @SmallpixelCar: Smart move. The car used the shadow to guide it through the bridge. This was never in the training samples. But it learn…
Jun 30
DIY Robocars via Twitter
RT @SmallpixelCar: Getting closer to the target. Single camera. Untrained road. https://t.co/Wsr7RwDamj
Jun 29
Richard Cox left a comment on Australia
"Anyone in the DIYDRONES Australian subgroup based in Alice Springs, NT?
I am experimenting with Ardupilot (standard Arduplane), Pixhawk 4 FC in a 4-ch
RC "AXN Floater Jet" foamy plane..."
Jun 29
Omar Sykes left a comment on Australia
"Hi everyone, I am looking for someone who is good at drone building, repair and software in Adelaide. Please give me a call on 0477 319 219."
Jun 29
DIY Robocars via Twitter
RT @RoboticMasters: #donkeycar https://t.co/czuLoVRcA4
Jun 29
DIY Robocars via Twitter
https://t.co/DKQbNTbz0g
Jun 29
DIY Robocars via Twitter
RT @RoboticMasters: Donkey car, car car car car car car; Donkey car, car car car car car car; Donkey Car. Anyone like our tiny tiny donkey…
Jun 29
DIY Robocars via Twitter
RT @SmallpixelCar: After improving DBSCAN speed, I can get 11 frame per second on @NVIDIAEmbedded Jerson Xavier MAXN mode and the autonomou…
Jun 26
DIY Robocars via Twitter
RT @Heavy02011: Join us at next Virtual Race League: ⁦@diyrobocars⁩ Race #4 - Parking Lot Nerds, August 1st https://t.co/5KUpu7VGaH
Jun 25
DIY Robocars via Twitter
RT @SmallpixelCar: #CUDA implementation should be easy, because most of the time is on distance calculations berween two points and if the…
Jun 25
DIY Robocars via Twitter
RT @SmallpixelCar: This is the view from the car. Even my lanenet inference is fast on @NVIDIAEmbedded Jerson Xavier, DBSCAN clustering tak…
Jun 25
DIY Robocars via Twitter
RT @SmallpixelCar: Ran my car in the park, with single camera and @sparkfun IMU. #TensorRT on @NVIDIAEmbedded Jetson Xavier. Lanenet one fr…
Jun 24
More…