Using a DJI 450 FlameWheel Quadcopter with the APM

3689490537?profile=original

Hi, I previously set up a KKX525 with the APM2, but when one of my ESC's started fading, I thought I'd try something a little more upscale.

I have now put together a DJI 450F Flamewheel ARF including DJI motors, Opto ESCs and props from "RC-Drones" at a reasonable $180.00 and am quite happy with it at this point in it's evolution.

If you try this there are a few things you need to know, but no real problems.

Generally follow the downloadable instructions I have provided on the Arducopter Wiki for assembling and setting up and testing a quad copter and in addition see below.

1. If you get the ARF kit, it will come without instructions, but the manual can be downloaded from the DJI website under their FlameWheel support section. It is some help.

2. When you assemble the copter assemble the top board so that the narrow slots are in the front and the back and the wide slots are on each side.

3. Use blue or purple thread lock sparingly on all screws and try to keep it off the plastic. 

4. One of the nifty features of this quad is that the bottom board is also the power distribution board, heat the connection pads adequately to get a good wet bond with the ESC and Battery Wires.

5. You can cover the solder joints with liquid electrical tape or "Glyptol" if you can find it.

6. I tie wrapped each ESC under each arm with 2 tie-wraps front to back through the arm webbing.

7. You will need to add an external switching BEC, the DJI 30 amp Opto ESCs are great optically isolated ESC's but they do not include a built in BEC. I used a Castle 10 amp switcher for about $20.00 you can get cheaper ones from HobbyKing but you should use a switcher, they are much much more efficient. You do not need to cut or remove the ESCs power wire, it doesn't do anything.

8. You do not need to balance or tune the ESCs as shown on the Wiki (in fact you can't they are not programmable).

9. I recommend O-ring suspension mounting of the APM board between 4 standoffs secured at the ends of the long thin slots at the front and back of the top DJI board (assuming you put it in as I described in (2.) above.) Put a machine screw in the top of each standoff and suspend the APM board between them by putting a thin O-ring through each APM corner hole and passing the 2 loops over the top of the screw in each standoff. Size the O-rings so there is little or no APM board movement, they will still provide good vibration isolation. Too much free movement and they will cause handling lag. If you prefer you can mount a fiberglass or plastic board to the standoffs instead and Velcro or double side foam tape the APM board to it. I like the suspension method best though.

10. DJI supplies 2 sets of props, I recommend that for a 3 cell battery you use the longer 10" ones, Only DJI props will fit the self locking oval shaft of the motor unless you do what I did below. The shorter 8" props are for 4 cell use.

11. I didn't like the DJI props although they worked OK. They are light, flexible, noisy and would break easily. So I bored out some very nice GemFan 11" x 4.5 props that I was previously using on my KK to fit the outer diameter of the oval part of the motor shaft (about .31") and because of a thinner hub section I also had to add a washer under each prop. This is a very highly recommended modification, they are quieter, more efficient and will not break at the first unpleasant encounter. These are not the expensive carbon fiber Gemfans but the $2.50 carbon filled ones and they are still great, however looking at Innov8tive's web site I see they now have a 10" x 4.5 version of this prop already hubbed correctly for the DJI motors, buy these, they are a no brainer. My guess is if you use the stock ones you'll need new props soon anyway.

12. When starting the Flamewheel, it arms as per normal (throttle down and to the right) but if you do not spin the props within 10 seconds or so, the DJI Opto ESCs will shut down and you need to disarm (down and to the left) and then rearm again. Anytime you are on the ground longer than 10 seconds without turning the props you will need to rearm. This is not a big deal. You will quickly get used to it and given the capability of these things to shred flesh you will probably come to appreciate it as a worthwhile safety measure.

13. When you are setting up your board with only the USB connected, the ESCs beep continuously, ignore them.

14. When you turn your transmitter on and plug in the FlameWheel's battery, the ESCs should emit a short musical series and be quiet. You are then ready to arm and fly.

I have only covered substantial differences to the normal quadcopter setup procedure, but I highly recommend the Flamewheel 450, it flies quite well with standard PIDs but I will publish PID info later as I tweak it. (See Below).

Although the current stock PID's fly quite adequately, I have found the following changes decreased "twitchiness" and increased stability:

As of 12 / 8 / 2012

Reduce the Angular Rate PIDs P value from .175 stock to .145

Increase the Angular Rate PIDs I value from .010 stock to .030

Reduce the Stabilize PIDs P value from 4.5 stock to 4.0

The above will be revised as I continue to tweak.

Loiter will probably want some tweaking too and I will publish that after I have more extensive experience.

Roll and Pitch inputs are very sensitive so you need a light finger on the control sticks, but once you learn control with them I think you will be happy with them, If not you can probably detune them with the same PID's I am changing above.

I have a friend who has also successfully set up the Flamewheel F550 Hexacopter with larger motors and Graupner props following these procedures with such adaptations as are necessary with a Hex and he is using stock Hex PIDs.

Hope this helps, please feel free to ask questions I will respond as best I can.

E-mail me when people leave their comments –

You need to be a member of diydrones to add comments!

Join diydrones

Comments

  • Hi Tony, although I haven't implemented it, I believe that spin on armed feature can be disabled in the Parameter setup section of Mission Planner.

    But it is normally enabled as it is considered a safety feature to have the motors spin slowly when armed.

    When you start raising the throttle the motors should accelerate relatively smoothly as the throttle goes up and you should take off (and hover) at about 50% throttle if everything is set up just right.

    There can be a bit of a raise necessary at the very bottom of the throttle range before any additional prop response is visible due to arm notify spin rate possibly being slightly above minimum throttle setting.

    (Throttle stick has to raise past this point.)

    This is all adjustable including whether the props actually spin at low throttle arm or not, but it is somewhat involved and you need to look at the procedures required on the APMCopter wiki under setup.

    From what you have said, it sounds like your copter is actually behaving like it is supposed to, my suggestion would be to just take off and get used to it in stabilize flying conservatively.

    If there are any PID problems they will identify themselves and you can adjust accordingly.

    Best Regards,

    Gary

  • Hi Tony,

    Yes with current firmware, the motors spin at slow speed when you arm to show that it is armed.

    Arm - spin - disarm - stop spin.

    And Thomas, A lot has happened since I first published this, but the above listed PIDs are still a good choice for starting but will vary a bit according to your individual hardware specifications (Motors, props, weight, etc).

    The most important PIDs to modify are the Angular RATE PIDs and the P value is most critical.

    Since this is a symmetrical copter, generally it is best to leave the roll and pitch PIDs locked together (as it is normally).

    Take a look at my QuadcoptersAreFun site the 2 flamewheels build:

    http://quadcoptersarefun.com/2FlamewheelsBuild.html

    and take a look at the DIYdrones APM Copter page on tuning here:

    http://copter.ardupilot.com/wiki/configuration/tuning/

    Best Regards,

    Gary

  • Hi Chuck,

    Good luck with that, the online sources have all dried up for the Zeal but maybe a few local shops might still have it, I'd call first.

    From all accounts the Moongel, yes the one in your link is a fine gel too, but I can only personally attest to the Zeal.which is great.

    I think your philosophy is exactly right.

    Way too many people get into this with the idea that I'll get the perfect multicopter that can haul my Panavision Camera around and take professional videos - and I won't ever need to do anything else.

    The result is a multi thousand dollar investment they end up being afraid to fly.

    My little FlameWheels are cheap, versatile, bullet proof development platforms and their personal injury threat level is also appealingly low.

    Eventually I'll invest in a conservative (photo / video copter), but for the time being these little guys are a lot of fun and let me build practical experience safely and cost effectively.

    And the FLIP frame you found is perfect for them too Togher and lighter the only downside is $$.

    Regards, Gary

  • Hi Chuck,

    I really like that "Flip", I'll probably get one of those myself.

    The telemetry radio shouldn't be a problem since the frequencies are so different and problems with it seem to be uncommon.

    I would suggest sticking the GPS in the middle and you can even stick it to the APM case with double sided foam tape.

    It is really important now that 3.0 is out that you mount the APM in a anti-vibration way and the best and simplest solution I have found is Kyosho Zeal Gel Tape, however, noticing that (everybody) is out of it, Moon Gel or Alpha Gel pads will work just as well and Moon Gel is commonly available everywhere.

    You will need to retain the case with a Velcro strap with some "soft" foam (loosely) retained between the strap and the case.

    This should be adequate by itself and is easier to implement than the O-ring suspension method which also requires careful tuning for the ideal O-ring diameter and cross section.

    Don't worry about battery heat, unless you live in the Kalahari desert this is unlikely to be a problem.

    The little shelves looks nice (and useful) I would probably trim it to make it stick out a little less and stick the receiver up on edge to get the weight back towards the center a bit.

    In any case, looks great, you should get a lot of flight time out of it.

  • Hi Chuck,

    Yes, the Opto ESCs are already identical as they are shipped and do not require calibration and in fact have no means to do so.

    Skip the ESC calibration section I will put a note to that effect in that part of the wiki.

    I have found them to be an extremely reliable ESC.

    I suggest ensuring that the bullet connectors from the motors to the ESCs are fully seated and not at all loose (they generally aren't) and then don't remove and reinsert them any more than absolutely necessary (which can loosen them and make the contact unreliable).

  • Hi Chuck,

    The power module is just fine, if you aren't using servos you don't need another external BEC.

    Power module is just another name for BEC in this case.

    Power module didn't exist when I wrote this.

    I love my FlameWheels.

    The real DJI ARF ones are very reliable platforms, I would switch to the carbon filled GemFan 10" DJI compatible props or 11" (which I am running) or even 12" ones if you don't mind carefully boring out their hubs a bit.

    With the 11 or 12" GemFan props, the Flamewheel F450 is very quiet in hover, very battery efficient and the occasional ground mishap doesn't destroy the props (especially if you manage to cut the throttle by the time it hits.)

    The motors and ESCs are super reliable and the frame is tough and versatile.

    These are by far the best for learning and for using as a development platform.

    I would make one caution, if you do want to carry a GoPro, go with a light weight mount and Gimbal, adding weight to these definitely has limits.

    With nothing they are little rockets with tremendous excess performance, but go heavy and they get sluggish.

    I had a extended landing gear and Camera and mount on mine, but I took it back off because it was more fun to fly without it.

    In any case an APM 2.5 will work great on it.

    Just mount it on four 3/4" square pieces of Kyosho Zeal Gel to cut the vibration.

    I also recommend you twist your power and ground leads from the battery and in to the ESC's together and route the wires as far from your APM as possible to minimize DC compass deflection.

    And even then if magnetometer deflection is still excessive you can get an external magnetometer and install it as described in the wiki.

  • Hi Jason, Default PIDs have changed considerably since this article was written.

    And interpretation of those PIDs by the firmware has changed significantly too, so it is necessary to tune your airframe to current PID constraints for whichever version of the firmware you are using.

    They will be coming out with version 3.0 anytime now and it includes inertial navigation and the PIDs react quite differently yet again.

    Hopefully once 3.0 is released and people have adjusted to it,  the PIDs will become more stable.

  • I'm showing the stock angular rate PID "I" value at 0.1, not 0.01.

  • in case anyone wondering.  I drilled a 5mm hole on either side of the plates for single ear plugs. Two plugs were used in the existing slotted holes at the ends.  The plates on this machine are clones rather than DJI so the holes may vary.

    MJ

  • Indeed there are ... but I won't post those pictures here.

    and another edit .... ear plugs .... don't know where ear buds came from.

    MJ

This reply was deleted.