Hi everyone,After learning to fly I want a really good photo./video. 4k gopro drone. I refuse to get a DJI. Every blog, mag., etc recommends them, but they get bad reviews and have horrible cust. serv. I want a hobby store RTF built/factory heavy lifter like Lum. QAV500, Storm Quad or Helimax Form 500. I keep hearing if you fly over water which I want to and can't aford to loose your equipment to use a hexa or octo for engine redundancy. But really how many quads fall out of the sky because of engine failure? Isn't signal loss, power loss, etc more common? I don't see any way to back that up. Can't I just use a well built quad instead of
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On my Hoverthings I have extended arms with 12" props which are quiter and more efficient, but I don't think you could do that on the QAV 540.
Given that the QAV 540 frame with gimbal sells for $356.00 I definitely think you would be better off going for an RTF Quad like the DJI phantom 3 or 4 or Yuneec K model or 3DR Solo, it will cost you less in the long run and you will have video preview (slow FPV) at high resolution via an attached tablet and for video or phot shot setup that is invaluable.
Not sure what you think 1K buys you. 4K, full autonomy, easy travel form-factor, 25 minutes of flight. Multiple Apps (in the case of the Phantom). I know a LOT of Phantom 3/4 owners most are pretty happy with it if aerial imagery is your thing. Yuneec's Typhoon at $1400 seems to have raised the bar further with a continuous rotation gimbal and retracts as well a dedicated GCS. DIYers are being left behind now. You simply cannot easily buy the technology components to make UAVs that can do what DJI, Yuneec models can do (or even 3DR Solo). But building is rewarding in its own right.
Marco deOliveira said:
Maybe video wise I can't do better, but copter and video wise I just can't believe it won't be better built. 3D Solo, DJI, Autel, Yuneec, they get a lot of bad customer reviews. I am not talking about mag. editors that just test it for a day, but actual customers that have spent a lot of money to buy the best just to be disappointed. I don't want to be one of those. 100 bucks I can understand, but close to a grand, I better see a majority of outstanding real customer
Gary- Real interested in the Hoverthings Flip FPV Pro Frame built, but it is no longer available. Can't I use a Lum. QAV 500 frame with the same results or do you have amother frame replacement for Hoverthings?
Maybe video wise I can't do better, but copter and video wise I just can't believe it won't be better built. 3D Solo, DJI, Autel, Yuneec, they get a lot of bad customer reviews. I am not talking about mag. editors that just test it for a day, but actual customers that have spent a lot of money to buy the best just to be disappointed. I don't want to be one of those. 100 bucks I can understand, but close to a grand, I better see a majority of outstanding real customer
But just to be clear, you are not going to make a better 4K camera 'drone' than one that you can buy. This is fairly simple really. You will spend a lot more and get middle results -- I promise. If you prefer making things then that is half the fun. I have a load of DIY machines with 3 axis gimbals and modified Hero 4 Black cameras to trigger shutter and remove the fisheeye. They are great and I do love them even if I fly them less often. But in terms of just getting great video in a portable form factor they do not match up to a Phantom 3 Pro that I also own (or a Phantom 4). You could also look at a 3DR Solo. And DJI machines really do not get bad reviews these days. Cannot speak to the customer service as I have not needed it. Sure it is not great though.
What you still cannot get so easily is really good stills so it is still worth making a machine that can haul a nice camera (Sony Nex or Alpha) on a 2 axis gimbal with Arducopter.
Great site. The QAV and Turbo Ace have the camera mounted just like the FLIP FPV Pro. I said on top, but the camera is mounted in front instead of bottom, that's what I meant.
Hi Marco, Pendulum effect is actually totally insignificant in a good bottom mounted gimbal.
The battery is by far the heaviest component in the copter and it is usually mounted a bit high to offset somewhat the camera gimbal.
CG is adjusted generally basically between props and there is effectively zerol mass pendulum effect.
And as far as the camera actually moving side to side or front to back on the bottom of the gimbal, it is a totally negligible and impossible to even see effect although I do understand why you might think that was otherwise.
The advantage to a bottom mounted gimbal is considerable, in practice most video is shot from straight ahead to straight down, very seldom at even much of an up angle.
Straight down is hard if camera is on top.
And a front mounted gimbal / camera can suffer from tilt motion greater than a bottom mounted one because it is located further from the CG so actual tilt induced movement of camera body up and down is greater.
Properly mounted with correct anti vibration mounts for the frame a bottom gimbal is simply the most versatile.
I am a real DIYer and have been building my own quads since early APM days here.
One thing that is definitely true is that you will have a much easier time buying a complete RTF package from a reputable manufacturer and for both the Yuneec and the Phantom, the 4K built in camera isn't really a deficeit, since it allows then to design their own interfaces rather than trying to interface to somebody elses.
Both Yuneec and Phantom have shown they can get as good or better performance than a GoPro.
If you already have a GoPro Black, you might want to get a Solo, it's super pro,
If you don't, a Yuneec or Phantom 4 can give really great performance for a bit less money.
(There are occasionally great deals on the Solo from 3DR though, I got mine with gimbal at $300.00 off list.)
Flight simulator is a great way to start, I did and it was a lot of fun and saved more than twenty times it's cost in expended hardware. (And that is definitely not an exaggeration).
Also the little Syma is a great place to start, practically indestructible and flies really well.
By the time you are competent with that you will be ready for a $1000.00 copter and copter plus gimbal plus camera you will have that invested in it.
If you can leave the camera and gimbal off for the first dozen flights or so.
(Easy on Solo).
Take a look at my now somewhat out of date Drones Are Fun website for more ideas and thoughts.
Just finished reading whole post. Thanks, lots of good advice. I will start with flight simulator, then a cheap trainer drone like Syma X5. If I got a popular ready made drone it would be the Yuneec 4K, just don't like the fact that the camera is built in.
I meant to say pendulum effect by mounting camera to bottom not jello effect. Thanks for confirming that I don't need hexa or octo for gopro. Good quad is sufficient.
Thanks for quick reply.
All the ones I mentioned you can add your own gimbal along with your own gopro.
Here is an accessory list for Storm 4 (FPV Transmitter + Gimbal + GoPro + OSD Module).
Helimax has rails for mounting gimbals.
QAV has gimbal mounting plate and since camera goes on top of drone instead of bottom. You can use a 2 axis because it doesn't cause jello effect like bottom mounting. Turbo Ace does it that way and their quad is super expensive.
Really good 4K video / photo drone doesn't actually seem to match up quite with the drones you have listed.
They are all excellent high performance drones, but there isn't one of them that supports a gimbal, at least from what I can see.
And to be a really good photo video 4K GoPro drone you really do need a gimbal for adequately stabilized video and photo use.
The DJI Phantom 3s and 4s are quite good video / photo drones with either a Zenmuse Gimbal or the full 4K camera supplied with the 4 by DJI.
These are probably the cheapest and easiest to learn to use out of the box and can deliver professional results with some practice.
I didn't get one either, for some of the reasons you mentioned, plus the one I got actually does more to help real film makers.
I got a 3DR Solo and I think it is an excellent copter with photo/video set up, tracking and dollying autonomous flight features that really make it and excellent video platform.
In my opinion for a serious videographer, the Solo is a more capable choice.
That said, even though with my GoPro Black I certainly can take 4K, I find the real value is 1080P at 60 FPS or faster which can let you really smooth out any glitches in the final cut.
You can take very good 4K, but it is a lot fussier and taking really good 1080P is generally much more practical and easier.
Ostensibly the Solo is supposed to be just as easy to use as a Phantom, but I would still plan on taking your time and learning how to fully exploit it's advanced capabilities slowly and only after learning how to competently fly it in the various full manual modes.
It really is a bit more pro than the Phantom and should receive appropriate attention.
One thing I really like is the HD preview which I get on my IPAD mini, it is adequate for video FPV and setup, but would be useless for racing due to a sub one second lag.
The HD preview is excellent for evaluating a shot and the camera transmission range and reliability are greatly increased by a special dedicated transmitter / receiver married to the GoPro.
The new Yuneec 4K might also be worth considering and it comes with gimbal and 4K camera.
BTW I agree with your decision to get a quad, the percentage of single motor / ESC / prop failures while flying is vanishingly small and the ability of hexs or octos to recover from those has not been 100% by any means.
Don't get a bigger Quad than you need to carry the gimbal and GoPro or GoPro clone, bigger just means handles less responsively, not what you want in a camera platform.
Build up your confidence and flight hours at low altitude over land before attempting water or rough passages.
That will allow you to learn how your copter behaves and it will verify that your copter is operating reliably.
I have two Hoverthings Flip FPV Pros that I started videography with, but these were basically frame up builds and that requires a LOT more test and development and you still run into finicky problems.
I would recommend to anybody these days who wants to get into this hobby, learn to fly a toy quadcopter, then go and get a RTF copter capable of doing what you want to do, FPV or Photo / Video.
But if you do want to do decent photo / video it does need to have a gimbal and a 3 axis gimbal is better than a two axis even if the 3rd axis (yaw) is only used for stabilizing.
Replies
Hi Marco,
At the new Hoverthings web site they say they are going to get more in, but it may be they are just gone.
It was one mans in Florida's vision and he did a very nice job.
The QAV 540G version is the one you would need with its built in Gimbal.
http://www.getfpv.com/qav540g-brushless-gimbal-airframe.html
On my Hoverthings I have extended arms with 12" props which are quiter and more efficient, but I don't think you could do that on the QAV 540.
Given that the QAV 540 frame with gimbal sells for $356.00 I definitely think you would be better off going for an RTF Quad like the DJI phantom 3 or 4 or Yuneec K model or 3DR Solo, it will cost you less in the long run and you will have video preview (slow FPV) at high resolution via an attached tablet and for video or phot shot setup that is invaluable.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/product/multirotor/drone-price-cuts/rea...
If you want the best deal you can get on a GoPro gimbal copter, the new Traxxis Aton is a really good alternative.
https://traxxas.com/products/models/heli/Aton-Plus
I have a freind who got one of these and he is very happy with it.
With the GoPro and gimbal removed it is very high performance and easy to fly.
With them installed it takes very good video and photos, especially for a 2 axis gimbal.
And they say in 2016 it is going to have FPV "Framing View" which would be a great addition.
You can do that at lower resolution by FPV + an FPV camera and transmitter and receiver, but it isn't as satisfactory and weighs and costs more.
(You cannot use the GoPro's built in WiFi because it is 2.4ghz and conflicts with the flight RC transmitter and receiver).
Not sure what you think 1K buys you. 4K, full autonomy, easy travel form-factor, 25 minutes of flight. Multiple Apps (in the case of the Phantom). I know a LOT of Phantom 3/4 owners most are pretty happy with it if aerial imagery is your thing. Yuneec's Typhoon at $1400 seems to have raised the bar further with a continuous rotation gimbal and retracts as well a dedicated GCS. DIYers are being left behind now. You simply cannot easily buy the technology components to make UAVs that can do what DJI, Yuneec models can do (or even 3DR Solo). But building is rewarding in its own right.
Marco deOliveira said:
Gary's advice is solid.
But just to be clear, you are not going to make a better 4K camera 'drone' than one that you can buy. This is fairly simple really. You will spend a lot more and get middle results -- I promise. If you prefer making things then that is half the fun. I have a load of DIY machines with 3 axis gimbals and modified Hero 4 Black cameras to trigger shutter and remove the fisheeye. They are great and I do love them even if I fly them less often. But in terms of just getting great video in a portable form factor they do not match up to a Phantom 3 Pro that I also own (or a Phantom 4). You could also look at a 3DR Solo. And DJI machines really do not get bad reviews these days. Cannot speak to the customer service as I have not needed it. Sure it is not great though.
What you still cannot get so easily is really good stills so it is still worth making a machine that can haul a nice camera (Sony Nex or Alpha) on a 2 axis gimbal with Arducopter.
Hi Marco, Pendulum effect is actually totally insignificant in a good bottom mounted gimbal.
The battery is by far the heaviest component in the copter and it is usually mounted a bit high to offset somewhat the camera gimbal.
CG is adjusted generally basically between props and there is effectively zerol mass pendulum effect.
And as far as the camera actually moving side to side or front to back on the bottom of the gimbal, it is a totally negligible and impossible to even see effect although I do understand why you might think that was otherwise.
The advantage to a bottom mounted gimbal is considerable, in practice most video is shot from straight ahead to straight down, very seldom at even much of an up angle.
Straight down is hard if camera is on top.
And a front mounted gimbal / camera can suffer from tilt motion greater than a bottom mounted one because it is located further from the CG so actual tilt induced movement of camera body up and down is greater.
Properly mounted with correct anti vibration mounts for the frame a bottom gimbal is simply the most versatile.
I am a real DIYer and have been building my own quads since early APM days here.
One thing that is definitely true is that you will have a much easier time buying a complete RTF package from a reputable manufacturer and for both the Yuneec and the Phantom, the 4K built in camera isn't really a deficeit, since it allows then to design their own interfaces rather than trying to interface to somebody elses.
Both Yuneec and Phantom have shown they can get as good or better performance than a GoPro.
If you already have a GoPro Black, you might want to get a Solo, it's super pro,
If you don't, a Yuneec or Phantom 4 can give really great performance for a bit less money.
(There are occasionally great deals on the Solo from 3DR though, I got mine with gimbal at $300.00 off list.)
Flight simulator is a great way to start, I did and it was a lot of fun and saved more than twenty times it's cost in expended hardware. (And that is definitely not an exaggeration).
Also the little Syma is a great place to start, practically indestructible and flies really well.
By the time you are competent with that you will be ready for a $1000.00 copter and copter plus gimbal plus camera you will have that invested in it.
If you can leave the camera and gimbal off for the first dozen flights or so.
(Easy on Solo).
Take a look at my now somewhat out of date Drones Are Fun website for more ideas and thoughts.
http://quadcoptersarefun.com/index.html
I will be updating it soon, but it still has lots of good suggestions, check out the learning to fly pages.
Best regards,
Gary
I meant to say pendulum effect by mounting camera to bottom not jello effect. Thanks for confirming that I don't need hexa or octo for gopro. Good quad is sufficient.
All the ones I mentioned you can add your own gimbal along with your own gopro.
Here is an accessory list for Storm 4 (FPV Transmitter + Gimbal + GoPro + OSD Module).
Helimax has rails for mounting gimbals.
QAV has gimbal mounting plate and since camera goes on top of drone instead of bottom. You can use a 2 axis because it doesn't cause jello effect like bottom mounting. Turbo Ace does it that way and their quad is super expensive.
Really good 4K video / photo drone doesn't actually seem to match up quite with the drones you have listed.
They are all excellent high performance drones, but there isn't one of them that supports a gimbal, at least from what I can see.
And to be a really good photo video 4K GoPro drone you really do need a gimbal for adequately stabilized video and photo use.
The DJI Phantom 3s and 4s are quite good video / photo drones with either a Zenmuse Gimbal or the full 4K camera supplied with the 4 by DJI.
These are probably the cheapest and easiest to learn to use out of the box and can deliver professional results with some practice.
I didn't get one either, for some of the reasons you mentioned, plus the one I got actually does more to help real film makers.
I got a 3DR Solo and I think it is an excellent copter with photo/video set up, tracking and dollying autonomous flight features that really make it and excellent video platform.
In my opinion for a serious videographer, the Solo is a more capable choice.
That said, even though with my GoPro Black I certainly can take 4K, I find the real value is 1080P at 60 FPS or faster which can let you really smooth out any glitches in the final cut.
You can take very good 4K, but it is a lot fussier and taking really good 1080P is generally much more practical and easier.
Ostensibly the Solo is supposed to be just as easy to use as a Phantom, but I would still plan on taking your time and learning how to fully exploit it's advanced capabilities slowly and only after learning how to competently fly it in the various full manual modes.
It really is a bit more pro than the Phantom and should receive appropriate attention.
One thing I really like is the HD preview which I get on my IPAD mini, it is adequate for video FPV and setup, but would be useless for racing due to a sub one second lag.
The HD preview is excellent for evaluating a shot and the camera transmission range and reliability are greatly increased by a special dedicated transmitter / receiver married to the GoPro.
The new Yuneec 4K might also be worth considering and it comes with gimbal and 4K camera.
BTW I agree with your decision to get a quad, the percentage of single motor / ESC / prop failures while flying is vanishingly small and the ability of hexs or octos to recover from those has not been 100% by any means.
Don't get a bigger Quad than you need to carry the gimbal and GoPro or GoPro clone, bigger just means handles less responsively, not what you want in a camera platform.
Build up your confidence and flight hours at low altitude over land before attempting water or rough passages.
That will allow you to learn how your copter behaves and it will verify that your copter is operating reliably.
I have two Hoverthings Flip FPV Pros that I started videography with, but these were basically frame up builds and that requires a LOT more test and development and you still run into finicky problems.
I would recommend to anybody these days who wants to get into this hobby, learn to fly a toy quadcopter, then go and get a RTF copter capable of doing what you want to do, FPV or Photo / Video.
But if you do want to do decent photo / video it does need to have a gimbal and a 3 axis gimbal is better than a two axis even if the 3rd axis (yaw) is only used for stabilizing.
Best Regards,
Gary