We have a great new Wiki / Manual which is actually being I think very helpful for all of us.
But there is a Huge - Seemingly Intractable Problem. At least in my estimation of things:
No the Iris isn't the problem, It's a really great 3DR copter, probably the best one available for the price - period.
Mostly its just here to get your attention and point to the actual problem.
The problem is the wiki is viewed as the exclusive property of 3DR: essentially for the dissemination of information about 3DR products and the firmware that runs on them.
This is not true for the DIYDrones website, only the Wiki and it has produced such significant conflict that I resigned as director of the wiki because of the conflict my more liberal approaches were causing.
Don't get me wrong, 3DR is underwriting this whole venture including the DIYDrones web site, but the Wiki is the persistant and coherent reference that allows us to put information important to us in a place for all to see.
Neither DIYDrones Blogs or Discussions have the sort of persistence and coherence necessary for a body of reference and instructional material.
I am especially distressed because I was truly central in importing almost all of the files from the previous wiki to this one and in updating most of them considerably.
I think it is fair to say that at this point at least 75% percent of the wiki pages contain major editing and additions by me and the only reason it is that small is that lately their have been more contributors - especially Randy.
Indeed, I also think the wiki should primarily support our open source firmware and hardware and such hardware as works with it and favoring 3DR is certainly understandable.
But I also feel very strongly that DIYDrones now serves as a central information hub for people who know nothing about Multicopters and drones and that we are missing both an opportunity and an obligation by not also thoroughly addressing those needs as well.
In particular I have written the following pages that are currently living in the APMCopter Wiki section that are at the moment a considerable cause of discord:
http://copter.ardupilot.com/wiki/what-is-a-multicopter-and-how-does-it-work/
http://copter.ardupilot.com/wiki/build-your-own-multicopter/
http://copter.ardupilot.com/wiki/dji-f330-flamewheel/
http://copter.ardupilot.com/wiki/hoverthings-flip-sport-quadcopter/
http://copter.ardupilot.com/wiki/common-fpv-first-person-view/
http://copter.ardupilot.com/wiki/advanced-copter-design-and-methods/
And Particularly
http://copter.ardupilot.com/wiki/advanced-multicopter-design/
Which I consider one of my best.
Several of the pages are directly built off of members Blogs, answers to repeated forum or Blog questions and they all seek to provide guidance in areas of obviously common interest to many members.
Lately I was told that these were not considered appropriate for the Wiki because they didn't stick close enough to the mandate of providing information for APM firmware and hardware installation, set up and tuning.
And I was directed that a DIYDrones Blog or discussion would be more appropriate.
My consideration of this is that they are completely inadequate for this and simply fade into non-existence in a few weeks.
And they do not provide anything like a rich enough format for this sort of important information.
I went to a hell of a lot of trouble to learn about the Wiki and how to edit optimally in it and to make full use of it's features in the belief at the time that it was a democratized wiki for all to contribute to.
And now I am told to say what I think is important in a format without persistence or form.
Of course I am not happy about this, but it is, in fact, entirely beside the point.
What is the point is how can we get this information to be available for our DIYDrones users without either conflicting with 3DR or with the Wiki / Manuals primary reason for existence of providing information for our Open firmware and Open hardware.
I would think either a separate Wiki section within each major wiki section or a separate wiki section entirely.
But in either case it is necessary to convince 3DR of the necessity for this because as it stands they view their ownership position as not having room for this - in so far as I have been led to believe and understand.
If yoiu do not care or think that this descision is 3DR's tomake and should stand as it is fine - repond and let me and 3DR know you are in complete agreement with them.
If you think that there needs to be a centralized, persistent and non specific to APM/Pixhawk hardware and APM firmware resource on the DIYDrones site speak up or forever hold your peace.
And suggestions of form and method are also appreciated (though I think the WP wiki which I have spent over a year learning the ins and outs of are pretty excellent).
Best Regards,
Gary
Comments
HI Gary, I saw your last post. I visited your new venture - dronesarefun - I like where that is going and bookmarked it. Time to move on, mate. Keep up the good work and don't look back too often. Good things will come from your venture.
Antonie
For anybody still looking at this link, just a note, Randy has now removed the "Start Here" page I put in that recommended starting with an inexpensive consumer RTF quad like the Hubsan X4 or UDI 818.
And even supplied complete instructions on how to fly.
I actually thought that was one of the most worthwhile and beneficial to new people coming to DIYDrones pages I ever wrote.
The way it is now they can waste thousands of dollars on broken parts before they ever learn how to fly.
It wasn't exactly about APM or Pixhawk, but it did tell people a safe, inexpensive and sane way to learn how to fly multicopters.
Randy thought it wasn't necessary, so send your bills to Randy.
It is still alive and well at:
http://www.dronesarefun.com/ADroneOfYourOwn.html
But so many of the new DIYDrones members will never get to my site, I am sorry about what the Owners of the DIYDrones Wiki site have decided wasn't in their best interest and that you will have to suffer for it.
Hi Aaron,
Thank you for the link, it looks like it has lots of good information I will certainly link to it on my website, and to specific articles within it where they are germane.
Drones Are Fun is now finally up and running and I am planning on expanding it with several new pages of constructive value for even hard core DIYDrones members.
First I have already put in a new page on batteries which provides more comprehensive description and implementation information for our uses than I have seen elsewhere.
And I am next planning on inserting several pages on camera and video installations and practical methods of exploiting them for copters and planes using the latest capabilities of Pixhawk and APM.
Best Regards,
Gary
http://www.dronesarefun.com/
For what it's worth, I just came across a useful, very open wiki at http://www.eflightwiki.com/ .
First, a partial apology to Craig and Randy, I better understand your positions now and I actually sympathize with them.
I say partial because, sadly, this looks like it was a matter that could have been largely resolved by better communication and collaboration several months back rather than simply issuing edicts.
Till that time I was in charge of the wikis and responsible for them, simply cancelling that circumstance and demanding that I get permission for everything was (in my opinion) an abysmal way to handle it.
Had Randy and I actually communicated with each other we could have worked this out to the benefit of the DIYDrones community.
And Randy, publishing your list of editor "commands" in one of the editor information resources was not adequate for one simple reason, I wrote the information resource, I knew everything in it, it is the single place I would never look.
Honestly, it might have been a good thought to have Emailed me a copy - don't you think!
I was breaking "RULES" I didn't even know existed.
Unfortunately, that isn't what happened and I am sure I am at least partly to blame, although I was honestly unaware of the true nature of the problems at the time.
Oh well water under the bridge and there is really no going back.
Randy still is very much of the opinion that the Copter wiki should only be for APM and PX4 implementation and use specific information and put in there in the most coherent way possible.
In fact I actually agree with him, but that also means that the wiki does not have an indexable source of encyclopedic information outside of that.
Since that was my original purpose in taking on the wiki in the first place, clearly it is not the appropriate place for me to continue to expend my efforts.
Therefore, I will continue ahead with my own website which is intended to provide primarily Non-APM or PX4 implementation and use information of interest to the DIYDrones community and others interested in UAVs for personal use.
I have not yet really launched my website as it is still missing a substantial number of it's pages.
But for those of you interested you can take a look at the very much under construction version at
www.dronesarefun.com
I still have lots of pages to add and the pages that are there are mostly just starts.
My gary@dronesarefun.com Email is now also active and if you would like please feel free to contact me there with any suggestions, changes or additions you would like to see.
I am very happy to entertain any positive contributions any of you would care to make although at the moment I will have to insert them by hand because the site is straight HTML / CSS.
There will be no divisive or negative or controversial content of any kind, the site is there to be informative and helpful, period.
Eventually I hope to include a public forum or bulletin board, but that also will be moderated to achieve the above conditions.
Best Regards,
Gary
I wish I could be as knowledgeable as Gary, as diplomatic as John and as eloquent as Oliver, but I'm none of those. I'm just a guy who likes drones and am trying to figure it all out. And Gary's stuff has helped me immensely. This "3DR shooting itself in the foot" seems to be a new and developing theme, which is unfortunate.
didn't read your last post, but alright gary i don't think anyone is going to fix it but you
your not even trying to help now
Alright enough trolling can we solve the problem now
Im not trying to BE the judge, but IM GOING TO judge you because I am interested in the solution and im trying to get over this because it seems like your smart people but wasting your time..
About the articles in question:
the first one is crap and should be on Wikipedia, it is NOT DIYdrones material noobs not allowed LOL.
The second one is on the edge of being acceptable but still kind of useless on this site, Put it on Wikipedia then add a section where you can link to DIYD and RCG and some links on where to buy parts and stuff or whatever else you reference, I feel like I'm wasting my time right now I hope you appreciate this.
Third link and fourth: Seems acceptable if the info is correct so maybe those should be included, have you heard of "instructables.com"? It is for How-to's and you can write step by step instructions there
5th link. again Wikipedia/derp material although it is really nicely put together research so I appreciate it
6 - deleted or censored
And particularly: I bookmarked and refer to that a lot and I WAS PLANNING ON ADDING TO IT
Its actually made it into the instructions so it looks like no problems there.
Summary: quit bi(#in ... and... fly!
So who is making the site? I don't have time to do it but ill help out when I can. So copying what Aaron and Kent said, make the "all-about-quads.com" forum or wiki and then you can add as many moderators as you want or make it totally editable but in my experience 99% of traffic is bots and spammers anyway. Its the internet.
I see that you can still post and are not banned, so they are at least giving you a chance to post links to your new site.
I hope I don't offend anyone and Im sorry If I mis understood anything
Good Regards,
Chrisa
For the moment I am terminating any further response of mine to this thread.
I will look at it again in a few days, but I think this needs to calm down and not become a bigger issue.
Except for being I believe completely incorrectly being portrayed as a source of "factual errors" leading to my marginalization I do not want to continue a divisive public debate.
It should not be about destruction but building.
I hope this can work itself out reasonably while I am gone.
Best Regards,
Gary
Hi Aaron, I appreciate the thought, but that is the last thing I want to see happen.
The current wiki / manual is a huge information resource and it is very accessible thanks to it's layout, and internal and external tables of contents.
At most, what I was actually hoping to do was simply provide a supplemental data set that covers the stuff that the core group doesn't want to focus on.
While I might have disputes with a few of the people here, In the end I have no intention of being a divisive force and I really just want to contribute to the whole DIYDrones group where I can and stay out of the way of the main developers and their interests.
There was a small push to establish a separate wiki within the current model, but it was not pursued and might tend to pull resources away from where they are otherwise needed.
I do not take being misrepresented well, so I have felt it necessary to state my case, but my over all goal is to be an asset to the DIYDrones community not a problem.
Best Regards,
Gary
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