Plane drop from balloon

Hi,

I'm actually being paid to lift an rc plane as high as I can using a balloon and then release the plane to fly home on it's own.

I have my Permission for Aerial Work and an exemption from the UK CAA for this adventure, plus insurance, so the legal side is sorted.

I am a professional aerial cameraman with a few years multicopter experience for my day job and FPV racing. I used to fly fixed wing rc for fun without autopilot but now do large land surveying using fixed wings.

I have built the prototype plane using a Skywalker X5 and Pixhawk. The delta shape was chosen because it has very few sticky-out bits for the balloon lines to get caught on. The X5 was chosen because I can replace the frame relativity cheaply after "teaching" it it auto-land. It also has a big payload area.

Obviously I've not done this before so I'm hoping that people here will be able to help out. Here's a few questions to start with:

Recovery from stall: Once the plane has been released from the balloon lines, it will fall for a few seconds before trying to recover horizontal flight. I'm not going to try for a long range rc control so the pixhawk will have to fly it home. What is the best flight mode to have it recover? I'm more interested in what mode to use in testing since I will fly up to 100m or so and then force a stall before allowing the pixhawk to recover for me.

The full size plane will probably be either an X8 or a Buffalo, anyone have a better airframe which is easily available in the UK?

I've already sent up a balloon to test the pixhawk, cameras and batteries. I was going to use a Raspberry Pi and Pixhawk to run the mission and make decisions when to move the release mechanism servo, etc but the Pixhawk 2.1 with Edison module looks a neater solution with less things to go wrong. I'd prefer the more tried and tested original pixhawk but I'm happy to give it a good bashing and go back to the pi if the Edison is not up to scratch.

Any other helpful comments or ideas would be most welcome.

I'd like to get this right because it's going to be landing live on TV. :-/

Thanks, Tim

Hi Lyn

Yes, that article took me so many places I never thought of going actually. Getting my own video from 100kft pretty much changed my whole life.

So did the APM 1

And 5 Axis CNC

Great times for sure!

Lyn Rees said:

Hi Monroe.

We have come a long way since then. But all good thing start somewhere:-)

Lyn

Monroe King said:

I have to admit I too was inspired by that very project.

Lyn Rees said:

Hi Monroe & Mark.

Yes! Thats the one! I remember following it religiously as they seemed very confident in achieving sucess,

So glad you found it Mark as it inspired a lot of what I do today.

Lyn

Monroe King said:

Hey Marc, well I'll be! That is the one I was thinking of and is the first as far as I know. Thanks for that bit of history!

Marc Chartier said:

I think I know the site that Lyn is talking about. I used to follow the blog as it was happening and bookmarked it all those years ago. I remember being really impressed at how the guy engineered every aspect of the thing to include a flight controller and ground control station and telemetry before such things were easily available and essentially plug-n-play.

Is this the site you are referring to?

High Altitude Glider Project

Lyn Rees said:

Hi Tim.

I remember many years ago some guy's in Canada spent a long time experimenting with this with various rates of success. They had a really good web site tracking their progress. I have tried to find reference in my PC archives but as yet I haven't found it. I will keep looking. But I do remember they had many failures before realizing any success. Hopefully other members here may remember the web site. Perhaps Rob Lefebvre being a fellow Canadian and a long time member will remember:-).

Good luck with this endevour and I hope you will keep us updated.

Lyn.

Replies

Monroe Lee King Jr January 21, 2017 at 12:03pm

http://www.sjsu.edu/people/nikos.mourtos/docs/Bhatt.S12.pdf

This paper can lead you in all kinds of directions for information about high altitude flight. I went down all these paths learning about high altitude flight.

The other project to check out is ARES this is how nasa does it.

http://www.sjsu.edu/people/nikos.mourtos/docs/Bhatt.S12.pdf
Monroe Lee King Jr January 21, 2017 at 11:33am

Dihedrial is for roll stability for pitch stability the CG is really a big deal on a wing type model I would switch to canards to gain pitch stability on a delta or wing.

I would add a little dihedrial to any plane I would drop from a balloon but not very much on a wing because it might make the pitch motion worse without canards.

Use a band saw and split the model right down the middle then use a sanding block to add a slight angle. Use a CF rod that inserts into a block with the right angle in it for both wings meeting in the center.

The thrust angle is also critical on a wing for powered flight.
Tim Squires January 21, 2017 at 10:40am

Hi Lyn,

Yes, the company I work with tried an X8 for surveys but it was not very tolerant of strong winds. The going into a strong headwind, the X8 would oscillate so much that it showed even on a gimballed camera.

The FX-79 that we fly now seems much better. On Munroe's advice, I'm going to modify the wings and add some dihedral. Not quite sure how yet because the FX-79 has a nice carbon rod going from one wing to the other. I'll work something out though. :-)
Lyn Rees January 21, 2017 at 9:37am

Hi Monroe.

I still have a pair of APM 1's carefully preserved wrapped in tissue sealed in a box:-).

I am however very envious of your access to a 5 axis CNC. My day job gives me access to two 4 axis Bridgeport (Hardinge) mill's only, and a couple of Mazak CNC lathes! I could do some serious damage with a 5 axis machine:-).

Sorry for digressing.

Tim I just noticed you mention possibly using an X8, Skywalker I presume? I think many on this forum will agree for such a stressful mission it will need some pretty serious wing strengthening modifications to survive this drop!

I fly one myself and have added a couple of robust Carbon Fibre spars to the ones already in the wing. I also, after listening to others keep it under 60mph.

Lyn.
Monroe Lee King Jr January 20, 2017 at 7:02pm

Hi Lyn

Yes, that article took me so many places I never thought of going actually. Getting my own video from 100kft pretty much changed my whole life.

So did the APM 1

And 5 Axis CNC

Great times for sure!

Lyn Rees said:

Hi Monroe.

We have come a long way since then. But all good thing start somewhere:-)

Lyn

Monroe King said:

I have to admit I too was inspired by that very project.

Lyn Rees said:

Hi Monroe & Mark.

Yes! Thats the one! I remember following it religiously as they seemed very confident in achieving sucess,

So glad you found it Mark as it inspired a lot of what I do today.

Lyn

Monroe King said:

Hey Marc, well I'll be! That is the one I was thinking of and is the first as far as I know. Thanks for that bit of history!

Marc Chartier said:

I think I know the site that Lyn is talking about. I used to follow the blog as it was happening and bookmarked it all those years ago. I remember being really impressed at how the guy engineered every aspect of the thing to include a flight controller and ground control station and telemetry before such things were easily available and essentially plug-n-play.

Is this the site you are referring to?

High Altitude Glider Project

Lyn Rees said:

Hi Tim.

I remember many years ago some guy's in Canada spent a long time experimenting with this with various rates of success. They had a really good web site tracking their progress. I have tried to find reference in my PC archives but as yet I haven't found it. I will keep looking. But I do remember they had many failures before realizing any success. Hopefully other members here may remember the web site. Perhaps Rob Lefebvre being a fellow Canadian and a long time member will remember:-).

Good luck with this endevour and I hope you will keep us updated.

Lyn.
Lyn Rees January 20, 2017 at 5:43pm

Hi Monroe.

We have come a long way since then. But all good thing start somewhere:-)

Lyn

Monroe King said:

I have to admit I too was inspired by that very project.

Lyn Rees said:

Hi Monroe & Mark.

Yes! Thats the one! I remember following it religiously as they seemed very confident in achieving sucess,

So glad you found it Mark as it inspired a lot of what I do today.

Lyn

Monroe King said:

Hey Marc, well I'll be! That is the one I was thinking of and is the first as far as I know. Thanks for that bit of history!

Marc Chartier said:

I think I know the site that Lyn is talking about. I used to follow the blog as it was happening and bookmarked it all those years ago. I remember being really impressed at how the guy engineered every aspect of the thing to include a flight controller and ground control station and telemetry before such things were easily available and essentially plug-n-play.

Is this the site you are referring to?

High Altitude Glider Project

Lyn Rees said:

Hi Tim.

I remember many years ago some guy's in Canada spent a long time experimenting with this with various rates of success. They had a really good web site tracking their progress. I have tried to find reference in my PC archives but as yet I haven't found it. I will keep looking. But I do remember they had many failures before realizing any success. Hopefully other members here may remember the web site. Perhaps Rob Lefebvre being a fellow Canadian and a long time member will remember:-).

Good luck with this endevour and I hope you will keep us updated.

Lyn.
Monroe Lee King Jr January 20, 2017 at 5:38pm

I have to admit I too was inspired by that very project.

Lyn Rees said:

Hi Monroe & Mark.

Yes! Thats the one! I remember following it religiously as they seemed very confident in achieving sucess,

So glad you found it Mark as it inspired a lot of what I do today.

Lyn

Monroe King said:

Hey Marc, well I'll be! That is the one I was thinking of and is the first as far as I know. Thanks for that bit of history!

Marc Chartier said:

I think I know the site that Lyn is talking about. I used to follow the blog as it was happening and bookmarked it all those years ago. I remember being really impressed at how the guy engineered every aspect of the thing to include a flight controller and ground control station and telemetry before such things were easily available and essentially plug-n-play.

Is this the site you are referring to?

High Altitude Glider Project

Lyn Rees said:

Hi Tim.

I remember many years ago some guy's in Canada spent a long time experimenting with this with various rates of success. They had a really good web site tracking their progress. I have tried to find reference in my PC archives but as yet I haven't found it. I will keep looking. But I do remember they had many failures before realizing any success. Hopefully other members here may remember the web site. Perhaps Rob Lefebvre being a fellow Canadian and a long time member will remember:-).

Good luck with this endevour and I hope you will keep us updated.

Lyn.
Lyn Rees January 20, 2017 at 5:33pm

Hi Monroe & Mark.

Yes! Thats the one! I remember following it religiously as they seemed very confident in achieving sucess,

So glad you found it Mark as it inspired a lot of what I do today.

Lyn

Monroe King said:

Hey Marc, well I'll be! That is the one I was thinking of and is the first as far as I know. Thanks for that bit of history!

Marc Chartier said:

I think I know the site that Lyn is talking about. I used to follow the blog as it was happening and bookmarked it all those years ago. I remember being really impressed at how the guy engineered every aspect of the thing to include a flight controller and ground control station and telemetry before such things were easily available and essentially plug-n-play.

Is this the site you are referring to?

High Altitude Glider Project

Lyn Rees said:

Hi Tim.

I remember many years ago some guy's in Canada spent a long time experimenting with this with various rates of success. They had a really good web site tracking their progress. I have tried to find reference in my PC archives but as yet I haven't found it. I will keep looking. But I do remember they had many failures before realizing any success. Hopefully other members here may remember the web site. Perhaps Rob Lefebvre being a fellow Canadian and a long time member will remember:-).

Good luck with this endevour and I hope you will keep us updated.

Lyn.
Monroe Lee King Jr January 20, 2017 at 4:22pm

Hey Marc, well I'll be! That is the one I was thinking of and is the first as far as I know. Thanks for that bit of history!

Marc Chartier said:

I think I know the site that Lyn is talking about. I used to follow the blog as it was happening and bookmarked it all those years ago. I remember being really impressed at how the guy engineered every aspect of the thing to include a flight controller and ground control station and telemetry before such things were easily available and essentially plug-n-play.

Is this the site you are referring to?

High Altitude Glider Project

Lyn Rees said:

Hi Tim.

I remember many years ago some guy's in Canada spent a long time experimenting with this with various rates of success. They had a really good web site tracking their progress. I have tried to find reference in my PC archives but as yet I haven't found it. I will keep looking. But I do remember they had many failures before realizing any success. Hopefully other members here may remember the web site. Perhaps Rob Lefebvre being a fellow Canadian and a long time member will remember:-).

Good luck with this endevour and I hope you will keep us updated.

Lyn.
Marc Chartier January 20, 2017 at 3:20pm

I think I know the site that Lyn is talking about. I used to follow the blog as it was happening and bookmarked it all those years ago. I remember being really impressed at how the guy engineered every aspect of the thing to include a flight controller and ground control station and telemetry before such things were easily available and essentially plug-n-play.

Is this the site you are referring to?

High Altitude Glider Project

Lyn Rees said:

Hi Tim.

I remember many years ago some guy's in Canada spent a long time experimenting with this with various rates of success. They had a really good web site tracking their progress. I have tried to find reference in my PC archives but as yet I haven't found it. I will keep looking. But I do remember they had many failures before realizing any success. Hopefully other members here may remember the web site. Perhaps Rob Lefebvre being a fellow Canadian and a long time member will remember:-).

Good luck with this endevour and I hope you will keep us updated.

Lyn.

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