Glider pilot surprised by drone in thermal

A disquieting report from our friends in the manned soaring world. Yet another reminder to STAY BELOW 400 FEET!

One of the pilots in our local soaring club was surprised to discover that he was sharing a thermal with a model aircraft [commonly referred to nowadays as 'Unmanned Aerial Vehicles' (UAVs)] at ~2,500′ MSL (~1,800′ AGL). With the proliferation of such aircraft, glider pilots may need to be especially vigilant for unmanned aircraft. As one of our club instructors informed us, in the United States, UAVs are required by the FAA to remain below 400′ AGL or have a Certificate of Authorization (CoA) to operate at higher altitudes (but see the link in the quote below for clarification on the FAA’s stance regarding UAV operating altitudes). CoAs are currently only issued for restricted areas in the Continental U.S.mIn any case, we need to be on the lookout for unmanned aerial companions while soaring.

Here’s the pilot report:

Today I had what looked like a fast quadcopter join me in a thermal above Cecil Ashburn Drive.

I think I was at about 3,100 feet MSL. The copter was about 500 feet below and gaining.
At first I though it was a bird, then a mylar balloon, then a manuevering craft with a red blinking light.
He was turning the same direction I was, but turning at a different rate so I couldn’t continuously see him.
I bugged out.

The thing that bugs me is that if there was a midair, he’d be out a copter, I’d just be out.

Anybody know what the rules are in this situation?
Prior arrangement for formation flying.
Glider versus powered right of way.
Anything goes if you can get away with it.

Here’s a link to the quadcopter community’s thoughts on the rules.

http://diydrones.com/m/blogpost?id=705844%3ABlogPost%3A1551726

The quadcopter folks agree that AC-9157 does specify a limit of 400 feet and line of sight, But they say that the process that makes an AC is not a rule- making process with a public comment period and so is not binding on the general public. They claim that the FAA has admitted that this is correct in court. They say this leaves 14 CFR part 91. Does a particular section come to mind in there that might apply?

@Mark, they don't sell F3 Soaring planes for $299 at the local hobby shop where you charge the batteries and go fly it at that altitude with no previous experience.

@Bill, yeah, I'm aware Skookum did it for liability reduction, and 3DR boards don't come with firmware. But isn't that just kind of a cynical view on the whole thing? "We've covered our own butts, so why do any more than that?" Isn't anybody compelled to do better? At least Skookum's restriction can't be removed, so they've done a solid job.

I'm completely aware that we can't stop people who want to remove the limit. And I'm not really suggesting we try. I wouldn't want the limit to be permanent, even if we could. Heck, I don't want the limit for myself, because I might have need to exceed it in some instances (I don't know what yet, but I concede the point that it shouldn't be absolute). But we can at least put in place a minimum level of effort to do so. Is it too much to say that, if you can't compile the code yourself, or at the very least find a parameter in the advanced parameters list and change it yourself, that you're not qualified to exceed 400 feet?

You need to be a member of diydrones to add comments!

Join diydrones

Comments

Rob_Lefebvre February 25, 2014 at 4:41pm

@Mark, they don't sell F3 Soaring planes for $299 at the local hobby shop where you charge the batteries and go fly it at that altitude with no previous experience.

@Bill, yeah, I'm aware Skookum did it for liability reduction, and 3DR boards don't come with firmware. But isn't that just kind of a cynical view on the whole thing? "We've covered our own butts, so why do any more than that?" Isn't anybody compelled to do better? At least Skookum's restriction can't be removed, so they've done a solid job.

I'm completely aware that we can't stop people who want to remove the limit. And I'm not really suggesting we try. I wouldn't want the limit to be permanent, even if we could. Heck, I don't want the limit for myself, because I might have need to exceed it in some instances (I don't know what yet, but I concede the point that it shouldn't be absolute). But we can at least put in place a minimum level of effort to do so. Is it too much to say that, if you can't compile the code yourself, or at the very least find a parameter in the advanced parameters list and change it yourself, that you're not qualified to exceed 400 feet?
Moderator

Mark Harrison February 25, 2014 at 3:59pm

@Gerard, they get sucked into the engine! oh wait...
Justin Martin February 25, 2014 at 3:57pm

@Gerard... You apparently haven't seen the damage that a bird can cause.
Muhammad Al-Rawi February 25, 2014 at 3:44pm

@Bill Bonney:

Thanks, I never thought of that.
Gerard Toonstra February 25, 2014 at 3:34pm

Is it true though that a glider can be taken out by a quad? I seriously doubt that.
Brent February 25, 2014 at 3:19pm

How about the 100KM badge? are those guys noobs also?
Brent February 25, 2014 at 3:12pm

But know-nothing newbies should not have free reign to use our system to fly like this.

Ever hear of Trappy? The worst offenders have turned out to be seasoned veterans.
Developer

Bill Bonney February 25, 2014 at 3:09pm

@Muhammad: Just sent the Geo Fence altitude to 120m

@Rob: I think Skookum set a limit as part of there reduction in liability. 3DR RTF models come with the fence alt limit set to 100m. 3DR autopilot boards are shipped with no software on them, it up to the users. If you put a hard limit in the FW, people can still go download a version with it compiled out. (even if it's in an obscure piece of code). If somebody whats to be an idiot, you can't stop them ( and that includes cars, boats, bicycles you name it !)
Moderator

Mark Harrison February 25, 2014 at 3:03pm

I'm a little puzzled at all this altitude discussion that ignores the plain fact that for many years F3 Soaring rules have stated that competitions start at an altitude of 200 meters.

http://www.fai.org/downloads/ciam/SC4_Vol_F3_Soaring_2014

So the 400 foot thing is not as set in stone as people make out.
Muhammad Al-Rawi February 25, 2014 at 2:27pm

It'd be very nice to have, at the very least, a warning in Mission Planner when altitude exceeds 400ft.

of 4

This reply was deleted.