New Project: Quadcopter - first hover, then OSD, FPV, UAV... the works... - Blogs

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I've never introduced myself so I'll take the time now (feel free to skip this paragraph). I have a business background but I am a technology enthusiast. Recently my interest about the business and strategics/social aspects of Open Source (especially Open Hardware) has really grown. In order to better understand the OS movement (and satisfy my geek alterego) I have been tinkering with Arduino, learning some programming languages, etc. And then I learned about DIY Drones....Once upon a time I flew RC Planes (that was during 1995 and 1996, I believe). I've been wanting to restart the hobby for quite some time, but now I believe I have what it takes ($). Unfortunately I live in a city that is not very RC-plane-friendly and I don't have a park or something nearby. For that reason I've been considering a Quadcopter project (for the VTOL and stability characteristics). This project should not only satisfy my flying needs, but also teach me about electronics, programming, etc.I am thinking about using a platform based on Arduino since I have learned some programming on it. Currently I am leaning towards the AeroQuad.In the future (if the thing take-offs) I plan on installing video gear for FPV. Followed by that I plan on programming (or if I get lazy I'll just buy a kit) some OSD. And than I should go into the UAV territory.I have many doubts about the project... here are some that maybe someone can help clarify:

Is the AeroQuad the best choice for what I need now and plan on installing in the future?
How much thrust do I need for something like this?
Does the AeroQuad support X configuration (I've only seen + configuration), and is that a hard thing to change?
Is a Quadcopter a good platform for UAVs?
Can a Quadcopter develop good forward speed? I imagine it to be slower than a heli. I haven't seen any movies of people flying quad's on long distances (which is something I'd like to do).

Based on my needs I believe this will be a VERY long (and probably expensive) project. I do want to discover the best COSTxBENEFIT solutions, of course.The "foward speed" thing is a factor that will probably take me into a next step that will be to transform the Quadcopter into a mix of Quad/V-22 Osprey/Airplane (that's why I have the question about the X configuration). Does anyone know a project like this?Sorry about the long post, I hope someone has the patience to read it.

(THIS TOPIC IS BEING DISCUSSED HERE)

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@Xander : thank you very much for your response!
@Caleb: I didn't quite understand what your final opinion is! lol I understood that you believe quads are unstable and an auto-pilot will probably crash it, but you also said that they are perfect for UAVs! I must have misunderstood you! :D At least it is easy to fix (and when it crashes I don't have the risk of chopping my head off!)
@Roy: You are correct. I just looked with more attention at the Aeroquad homepage and saw that it does support the X configuration. On the battery case, you are totally right, and that's another reason that I want a tilt-wing rotor. That way I can take-off vertically and then fly to the distance (using FPV or not) and have longer flight times (probably using 20% or so from the power of the 4 engines).

I think like you do. First I want to get a stable Quad.. then I'll get FPV... then UAV... then Tilt-rotor. One step at a time... it will be a fun project...

Do you believe there is alot of interest in a project like this? Maybe we can begin an open-source tilt-rotor or something. As I said, I'm trying to understand the OS movement and nothing would be nicer than to take part in one myself. What do you think? Is DIYDrones the place to do it? Should we build a new network for it or something?

More feedbacks on this project are more than welcome.

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Comments

Miguel COLLADOS August 3, 2009 at 1:40pm

Yeap, you are right, this seems quite complicate. And on top of that it will be dificult to understand the readings from the accelerometers during the transition from hovering to flight mode and viceversa... will be sufficient with the gyro data or do we need an external reference to keep the vehicle horizontal?
-Miguel
Roy Brewer August 1, 2009 at 8:40am

@Miguel

You should be able to get away with one remote controller/rc radio for the quad tilt rotor. You'll need a microcontroller or several (or other programmable chip(s)). They have to be able to control 4 motors plus at least 3 servos (or much more, depending on your configuration). The real challenge will be in handling the blending or mixing between the hover controls & the airplane controls, as well as the tilt axis mechanization itself (for example, do you use a manual control from another r/c channel or do you schedule the tilt automatically with airspeed or other sensors)

- Roy
Miguel COLLADOS July 31, 2009 at 12:59am

@ Gian Carlo: I agree with you
@ Xander: Thanks for the link to Old Man Mike's, it's really a good job!
I never checked how long the hely will fly when fully loaded of batteries, but if you do so it will loose maneovrability and speed, so it will became as "lazy" as a quad. So again it depends if you want speed or just hovering.

The Tilt-rotor thing has the advantages of both, but it won't be easy to maneuver, in my opinion it will need two remote controllers, or a very complete one: 4 channels for hovering, 4 for airplane mode, 2 for the FPV and at least 2 auxiliary for control OSD menus, flight mode...
And two CPU,s or a quite powerful one with two programs: the law of movement will be completelly diferent when hovering than when "flying"

regards,
Miguel
Gian Carlo M. July 30, 2009 at 2:55pm

Xander, those numbers by OldMike are great! Thanks for the link
Xander July 30, 2009 at 2:43pm

Miquel, what you say about efficiency makes sense, but it doesnt seem to work that way in practice. Maybe it's the extra weight inherent in a heli, maybe it's mechanical losses, but if you look here you'll see that a quad is capable of close to 30 min of flight. And that's probably not even fully optimized.

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Gian Carlo M. July 30, 2009 at 1:54pm

Hi Miguel! Welcome aboard then! :)

I believe we could get more battery life not in "quad-mode", but in airplane mode. Using the wings I believe we can get enough lift to fly with 20-30% of the power needed to hover in quad-mode. Does it make any sense?

We could have the same wing surface as an airplane, but with he added weight of 3 extra engines... adding all that maybe we can achieve 80% of the battery life (just guessing numbers) in "airplane mode", using "quad mode" for take-off, cruise altitude and landing.

We could definitely have someone on board that knows a lot about programming, I think it's going to be a huge part of the project.
Miguel COLLADOS July 30, 2009 at 1:21pm

Hi everybody,
Based on my personal experience (I own an X-UFO and a few model helicopters e.g. Trex 450V2) I can tell you that if you want speed and battery life you need a helicopter. If you want just hover take some pictures, see the neigbourhood from above and move at lower speeds, then you'd better go for the Quad. If you want to do it just for fun, then the X configuration is a great challenge, but do not expect more battery time than with a helicopeter. And it will be a big big challenge, you can ask Mr. Moller! http://www.moller.com/skycar.htm But if you decide to go ahead I am interested, I think I could help with the electronics and flying experience. (I already have an Easiglider with OSD and FPV working)

The helicopter is more efficient (up to 15-20 minutes of flight) because the rotor blades are actually wings moving at high speed, so you just need power to keep them turning. In a Quad, you use propellers purelly fighting gravity...
Best,
Miguel
Gian Carlo M. July 30, 2009 at 12:43pm

Just found this vid on Youtube:
I am continuing this discussion at: http://diydrones.com/forum/topics/tilt-rotor-quadcopter-for
Xander July 30, 2009 at 12:43pm

I believe Caleb meant that ANYTHING with a computer controlling a rotor is going to crash a bunch at first. At least with a quad those crashes are cheap and easy to fix. Meaning quad is the way to go!

I'm actually quite interested in a tilt-rotor....or some sort of vtol that transitions to winged flight (possibly have the whole quad tilt 90deg instead of the individual motors). I've been rather disappointed with the rcgroups vtol forum. Not a whole lot there. I've been brainstorming on some different ways of doing it. Trick is that you really want a large wing to enable long flight times, but that wing is going to catch the wind when you dont want it to during vertical flight.
Gian Carlo M. July 30, 2009 at 10:42am

@Xander : thank you very much for your response!
@Caleb: I didn't quite understand what your final opinion is! lol I understood that you believe quads are unstable and an auto-pilot will probably crash it, but you also said that they are perfect for UAVs! I must have misunderstood you! :D At least it is easy to fix (and when it crashes I don't have the risk of chopping my head off!)
@Roy: You are correct. I just looked with more attention at the Aeroquad homepage and saw that it does support the X configuration. On the battery case, you are totally right, and that's another reason that I want a tilt-wing rotor. That way I can take-off vertically and then fly to the distance (using FPV or not) and have longer flight times (probably using 20% or so from the power of the 4 engines).

I think like you do. First I want to get a stable Quad.. then I'll get FPV... then UAV... then Tilt-rotor. One step at a time... it will be a fun project...

Do you believe there is alot of interest in a project like this? Maybe we can begin an open-source tilt-rotor or something. As I said, I'm trying to understand the OS movement and nothing would be nicer than to take part in one myself. What do you think? Is DIYDrones the place to do it? Should we build a new network for it or something?

More feedbacks on this project are more than welcome.

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