I've been planning on getting a phantom for sometime but recently it was suggested that I look at the arducopter. I've been doing some research and like the 3dr quad and hex rtf version. But I'm not prepared to get into the intracies of programming arduino and such. My question is if I go the arducopter route am I getting more of a project than a platform? I appreciate your thoughts on this.Also for what it's worth I emailed sales@3drobotics Monday with a few questions about the product and after sales support. No reply yet so I'm concerned if I can't get a prompt reply when I'm interested in buying one what kind of after purchase support can I expect?ThanksFred
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I started getting interested in drones 6 months ago. I started by purchasing the 3DR quad almost RTF kit. It was fun to assemble and thanks to this site and the wiki, not only had I very good support but also learned at exponential speed (versus first study a subject, then getting in it step by step).
Honestly I think , thanks to the forum posts, that I saved years of self-experimenting that was done by others before.
For that I would recommend strongly to begin with the 3DR kit.
Of course, like all others, I crashed this first quad a couple of times unitl I destroyed two of the four arms. What's great is that a prop or an arm to replace will cost you a few dollars; I'm not sure how much are the phantom spare parts ?
Then I decided I could build my own frame, which I did, two times since. And I do not stop the craze of building new frames, just too much fun. This you can do with a APM apporach because you will just move your parts to the new frames. You can't do that with a commercial package.
Fred; I will give you my opinion from a person that just got involved in Quad UAV's. I have both a Phantom and a 3DR Quad under construction as I type. I have flown the Phantom now for about three months, at least every day. I am taking my time building the 3DR Quad and am about 1/2 there---I think. My original (and still is ) intent for my involvement in this area was my interest in commercializing a business venture using UAV's once the FAA in the US allows this; Reportedly in 2015 (we will see). Anyway, my experience in the Arduino platform is good but I have never touched, had an interest, or even took more than casual note of anything in the RC community. As I get more and more involved here I can see why---very strange community.....for the most part seem as if they either want a rookie to go through baptism by fire or simply lack teaching skills for entry level students. The reason I got so long winded is to back up my observations which are as follows;
Re: Phantom;
The Craft:
Exceptional and impressive vehicle for what it was made for. That being an entry level RTF UAV for hobby and light (photography) commercial use and good for a rookie learning to fly. Nearly indestructible as I have crashed into EVERYTHING in every state of flight attitude, including inverted. I expected this and actually bought it for a training craft. This thing is fast, agile, easy to master and IMHO an absolute genius marketing move for DJI to recognize this nitch market and put the other "first out " competitors to shame with this products introduction into the retail community.
Customer Support:
Not good, as almost everything beyond what is available via DJI's web videos and owner forums video's one is advised to contact their original retailer or dealer. Unfortunately nowadays most likely it is a non-brick and mortar retailer and good luck on talking to someone. For instance, I crashed real hard one time in particular and was getting a series of LED flashes that from the support info from DJI's site was advised to contact my dealer. After three days of attempting the same I finally gave up and found through a long search process on the internet that the fix was to remove the Naza unit and bash it on its side a hard surface from 8" away. I was scared but desperate to get back up in the air so I went for it. To my amazement not only did it remedy the problem but it seemed as if it even flew better!
Re; 3DR Quad:
The Craft and customer support: I opted for the Quad 880kv motors and 11 inch props, upgraded GPS. As always the first impression on me is with the packaging , if duct taped I usually will sigh loudly and let out an "OH NO, big purchasing error!!!". I was impressed with the packaging, obviously experienced scientific types involved and aware of the sensitivity of electronics. Now lets be serious here, BE AWARE!!! THIS IS A DIY project, I was aware of this by carefully cruising the forums and reading the posts and wanted it that way anyway. In my past 30 year career I recognize the value of learning "in the trenches" so to speak. I would always choose a field hardened individual that had "been there / done that" than a scholar that knew it in theory but not in practice. So, not having the luxury of time to do this in the trenches stuff I opted for a "crash course" of study and jumped headfirst into it as a DIYer. Point being, if you do not have basic or better soldering skills, a working knowledge of the Arduino platform, a desire to learn from mistakes and a desire to penetrate this somewhat "keep to themselves" group then forget about it as this would be a seriously expensive and disheartening way to learn the basics. If you however, you want to learn by a total immersion type approach (kinda like agent types learn foreign advanced language speaking in a hurry ) then you could not do better than 3DR's products or perhaps JDrones.
SIDE NOTE: I have no experience with JDrones except IMHO, a company that is involved in promoting the whole concept of UAV's as I assume they are, should probably ditch the word "drone" but perhaps that may not be business savy for them to do so in regard to their length of time in the market while using that name and the accompanying name recognition. I reserve judgment on my quad's flyability as I'm not done constructing it but I expect a phenomenal result once I spend a couple months more here on getting it right. ( I will probably have to join the flyaway club because of that statement)
I have had some issues with backorders of cables and connections that put a screeching halt on further construction but I did a workaround and managed to locate the American distributor and ordered direct from them with a 400% decrease in cost at that!!! I also was dismayed a tad bit when I came to the realization that this unit is not really a RTF vehicle or as they advertise "everything needed to ........". When you get into it one realizes that.... well... the Ardupilot / ARM3.+ does have onboard this and that but you slowly begin to realize that that is fine and dandy but these "on board devices" apparently don't work so well or the need for additional sensors is necessary for them to perform to an adequate level . I wish this were clearer in the promo literature as it APPEARS as if the promoter of the product is concealing this fact by omission in the initial promotional statements. I Stress " APPEARS AS IF" because I don't necessarily believe that to be the case but IF I WORKED THERE I WOULD CLEAN THAT UP.
Bottom Line: If you can afford it buy both.
Well as you can see I never comment on these forums and probably never will again (Big sigh of relief from audience) as I get too long winded and get off track. For those of you who go as way far back as I do..... I never even posted on the old BBS's !!! Well, maybe...just maybe, I will compose a follow-up post on my maiden flight or maiden fly-away depending on how well this audience receives this post. If you bother to read this whole post then read the last sentence and if you did not bother to do so then no big deal because you did not even see this last sentence so it is a moot point.
Fred you can also take a look at jDrones RTF kits. jDrones is onr original ArduCopter manufacturer/developer. We actually have been doing RTF kits longer than 3DR.
jDrones, R/C UAVs and More....
Manufacturer of ArduCopter frames and parts. Custom airframe manufacturing, Custom design services for all your R/C UAV needs
I have purchased Arducopter. - It is a project and product. You would have two options:
- You can extend the project by programming (that I am upto)
- You can use it without seeing ever a line of code and get the most of what it can do.
- 10-15 minutes of flight time standard.
- Customer care was no good 2 months back, getting a reply weeks later, if you were lucky. Apparently, things are improving fast with 3DR, so you can expect better response now.
- Cust. care is mostly for product support. For technical stuff, forum is the best option, I believe. Though, you will not get 100% support over forums from my experience of posts over the past one year, it depends on people's mood to reply and/ or depends on how they can help you with the question you posted.
Ardupilot is the superior platform imho. If you want quality, this is a no brainer. Go pick up the Phantom's TX. Feel the light weight, the lack of quality bearings in the controller. Terrible sticks imho, feels cheap. Now go pick up a decent Spektrum like a DX8 or a good Futaba . Night & day difference. People by it because they want instant turn-key systems found in many hobby shops. You don't find Ardupilot in hobby shops or RTF Arducopters, or people would be flying those instead.
There's no magic to programming. You plug in a USB cable and run the Mission Planner software. 1 click to flash it, little to no adjustments to make. If it's all wired right and the props are in the correct direction, just calibrate and go fly.
Replies
Hello Fred,
I started getting interested in drones 6 months ago. I started by purchasing the 3DR quad almost RTF kit. It was fun to assemble and thanks to this site and the wiki, not only had I very good support but also learned at exponential speed (versus first study a subject, then getting in it step by step).
Honestly I think , thanks to the forum posts, that I saved years of self-experimenting that was done by others before.
For that I would recommend strongly to begin with the 3DR kit.
Of course, like all others, I crashed this first quad a couple of times unitl I destroyed two of the four arms. What's great is that a prop or an arm to replace will cost you a few dollars; I'm not sure how much are the phantom spare parts ?
Then I decided I could build my own frame, which I did, two times since. And I do not stop the craze of building new frames, just too much fun. This you can do with a APM apporach because you will just move your parts to the new frames. You can't do that with a commercial package.
Just some thoughts...
Fred; I will give you my opinion from a person that just got involved in Quad UAV's. I have both a Phantom and a 3DR Quad under construction as I type. I have flown the Phantom now for about three months, at least every day. I am taking my time building the 3DR Quad and am about 1/2 there---I think. My original (and still is ) intent for my involvement in this area was my interest in commercializing a business venture using UAV's once the FAA in the US allows this; Reportedly in 2015 (we will see). Anyway, my experience in the Arduino platform is good but I have never touched, had an interest, or even took more than casual note of anything in the RC community. As I get more and more involved here I can see why---very strange community.....for the most part seem as if they either want a rookie to go through baptism by fire or simply lack teaching skills for entry level students. The reason I got so long winded is to back up my observations which are as follows;
Re: Phantom;
The Craft:
Exceptional and impressive vehicle for what it was made for. That being an entry level RTF UAV for hobby and light (photography) commercial use and good for a rookie learning to fly. Nearly indestructible as I have crashed into EVERYTHING in every state of flight attitude, including inverted. I expected this and actually bought it for a training craft. This thing is fast, agile, easy to master and IMHO an absolute genius marketing move for DJI to recognize this nitch market and put the other "first out " competitors to shame with this products introduction into the retail community.
Customer Support:
Not good, as almost everything beyond what is available via DJI's web videos and owner forums video's one is advised to contact their original retailer or dealer. Unfortunately nowadays most likely it is a non-brick and mortar retailer and good luck on talking to someone. For instance, I crashed real hard one time in particular and was getting a series of LED flashes that from the support info from DJI's site was advised to contact my dealer. After three days of attempting the same I finally gave up and found through a long search process on the internet that the fix was to remove the Naza unit and bash it on its side a hard surface from 8" away. I was scared but desperate to get back up in the air so I went for it. To my amazement not only did it remedy the problem but it seemed as if it even flew better!
Re; 3DR Quad:
The Craft and customer support: I opted for the Quad 880kv motors and 11 inch props, upgraded GPS. As always the first impression on me is with the packaging , if duct taped I usually will sigh loudly and let out an "OH NO, big purchasing error!!!". I was impressed with the packaging, obviously experienced scientific types involved and aware of the sensitivity of electronics. Now lets be serious here, BE AWARE!!! THIS IS A DIY project, I was aware of this by carefully cruising the forums and reading the posts and wanted it that way anyway. In my past 30 year career I recognize the value of learning "in the trenches" so to speak. I would always choose a field hardened individual that had "been there / done that" than a scholar that knew it in theory but not in practice. So, not having the luxury of time to do this in the trenches stuff I opted for a "crash course" of study and jumped headfirst into it as a DIYer. Point being, if you do not have basic or better soldering skills, a working knowledge of the Arduino platform, a desire to learn from mistakes and a desire to penetrate this somewhat "keep to themselves" group then forget about it as this would be a seriously expensive and disheartening way to learn the basics. If you however, you want to learn by a total immersion type approach (kinda like agent types learn foreign advanced language speaking in a hurry ) then you could not do better than 3DR's products or perhaps JDrones.
SIDE NOTE: I have no experience with JDrones except IMHO, a company that is involved in promoting the whole concept of UAV's as I assume they are, should probably ditch the word "drone" but perhaps that may not be business savy for them to do so in regard to their length of time in the market while using that name and the accompanying name recognition. I reserve judgment on my quad's flyability as I'm not done constructing it but I expect a phenomenal result once I spend a couple months more here on getting it right. ( I will probably have to join the flyaway club because of that statement)
I have had some issues with backorders of cables and connections that put a screeching halt on further construction but I did a workaround and managed to locate the American distributor and ordered direct from them with a 400% decrease in cost at that!!! I also was dismayed a tad bit when I came to the realization that this unit is not really a RTF vehicle or as they advertise "everything needed to ........". When you get into it one realizes that.... well... the Ardupilot / ARM3.+ does have onboard this and that but you slowly begin to realize that that is fine and dandy but these "on board devices" apparently don't work so well or the need for additional sensors is necessary for them to perform to an adequate level . I wish this were clearer in the promo literature as it APPEARS as if the promoter of the product is concealing this fact by omission in the initial promotional statements. I Stress " APPEARS AS IF" because I don't necessarily believe that to be the case but IF I WORKED THERE I WOULD CLEAN THAT UP.
Bottom Line: If you can afford it buy both.
Well as you can see I never comment on these forums and probably never will again (Big sigh of relief from audience) as I get too long winded and get off track. For those of you who go as way far back as I do..... I never even posted on the old BBS's !!! Well, maybe...just maybe, I will compose a follow-up post on my maiden flight or maiden fly-away depending on how well this audience receives this post. If you bother to read this whole post then read the last sentence and if you did not bother to do so then no big deal because you did not even see this last sentence so it is a moot point.
Thanks for your time, I hope I helped.
Fred, email me! I am your Canadian distributor! :)
I answer emails right away.
dany at CanadaDrones.com
Fred you can also take a look at jDrones RTF kits. jDrones is onr original ArduCopter manufacturer/developer. We actually have been doing RTF kits longer than 3DR.
I have both and both have good a bad points. Here is the quick version-
Arducopter Pros-
Waypoint Navigation
Ground Station Capabilitites
Lot's of flexability and tons of customization and options
Cons-
Various manuals and unfortunatley opinions on how to do things
Support not always there
Still a lot of DIY, I dont care what anyone says.
DJI Phantom Pro's-
Turnkey, ready to go out of box
Return to home on loss of Rx or battery voltage
Nice clean look
GoPro mount included (2 axis Brushless gimbal out in 30 days)
Solid GPS position hold
LED Mode indicator
Con's-
Small size limits lifting capabilities
No waypoints although APM's have been installed in Phantoms see Here
Some say cost although when you add the parts up its pretty equal
Yes, Radio is simple, trims have been remove for simplicity (Requires AA Batteries for Tx)
Overall I'd say depending on what you plan to do with either, you'd be happy with both.
Hi Fred,
I have purchased Arducopter. - It is a project and product. You would have two options:
- You can extend the project by programming (that I am upto)
- You can use it without seeing ever a line of code and get the most of what it can do.
- 10-15 minutes of flight time standard.
- Customer care was no good 2 months back, getting a reply weeks later, if you were lucky. Apparently, things are improving fast with 3DR, so you can expect better response now.
- Cust. care is mostly for product support. For technical stuff, forum is the best option, I believe. Though, you will not get 100% support over forums from my experience of posts over the past one year, it depends on people's mood to reply and/ or depends on how they can help you with the question you posted.
Regards..
Ardupilot is the superior platform imho. If you want quality, this is a no brainer. Go pick up the Phantom's TX. Feel the light weight, the lack of quality bearings in the controller. Terrible sticks imho, feels cheap. Now go pick up a decent Spektrum like a DX8 or a good Futaba . Night & day difference. People by it because they want instant turn-key systems found in many hobby shops. You don't find Ardupilot in hobby shops or RTF Arducopters, or people would be flying those instead.
There's no magic to programming. You plug in a USB cable and run the Mission Planner software. 1 click to flash it, little to no adjustments to make. If it's all wired right and the props are in the correct direction, just calibrate and go fly.