3D Robotics

The paradox of DIY electronics warranties

3689388049?profile=originalOne of the trickiest parts of selling electronics kits, as we do, is how to handle customer support and returns. I'd estimate that 90% of the problems that users have with DIY Drones gear is due to user error: soldering mistakes, not following the manual properly, issues with their own PC/Mac, or simply misunderstandings and confusion about how to use the products (no doubt sometimes due to documentation that could be improved).

 

But perhaps 10% of user problems (and only a tiny fraction of all orders, of course) really are due to defective boards, which somehow made it out of our factory with a problem. Although every board is tested and demonstrated working before being shipped, there are some things that our test code doesn't check, such as what happens when that particular board is vibrated or subjected to cold temperatures. And there are other products that we simply resell and don't test, which could have come from their makers faulty (a recent batch of FTDI cables from China had the wires connected in the wrong order, for example).

 

So how to handle returns? The normal answer for companies that sell finished goods doesn't work for DIY kit sellers, since it's hard to tell whether the problem was due to a manufacturing error or user error. So most such retailers have a clause in their terms of service like this one, from MakerBot (which they discuss here), that pretty much says that the moment you power it on or touch it with a soldering iron, the manufacture's responsibility ends:

Returning Purchased Items. MakerBot Industries accepts returns for any unaffected item within 14 calendar days from the date of receipt of merchandise."Unaffected" means a device has never been assembled, powered up, programmed, or otherwise changed. MakerBot Industries cannot accept returns on purchased items that have had electrical power applied to them, or been otherwise programmed, changed, or affected.

The paradox, of course, is how can you know it's defective before you power it on? In practice, most of these companies will accept returns of products that have been powered on, but typically not if they've been soldered. We wrestled with this and decided to be more explicitly generous in our terms, while still limiting our liability:

Defective products manufactured in house will be replaced within 10 days of receipt, with the same item. All goods are checked before they are sent out. In the unlikely event that goods are faulty, they must be returned, to the DIY Drones store at the address listed on your order invoice. The DIY Drones store will not accept goods that have clearly been used more than the amount needed to evaluate their functionality. If the goods are found to be in working condition, and the lack of functionality is a result of lack of knowledge or assembly error on the customers part, no refund will be made, but the goods will be returned to the user at their expense

So this is a judgement call. Most of the time, when people ship us back "defective" boards, it's clear that they were simply soldered wrong or not defective at all (the user had plugged in their RC gear wrong or loaded the wrong code). In cases of soldering errors, if it's easy to fix we might do that, but if it's really been bungled, we may just send it back. We try to error on the side of being as helpful as possible, but there are limits to what we can do.

 

We've invested a lot in customer and technical support over the past few months and now have full-time employees doing both.  As the MakerBot post linked above points out, this is uncharted territory for open source hardware companies like ours, and we're all trying to find the path that is right for the community but also allows for sustainable businesses. It will evolve over time. But I wanted to let our customers know how we're approaching this, and I welcome suggestions on how to do it even better.

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Comments

  • 3D Robotics

    Lorentz: I think you misunderstood. We don't have failure on 10% of boards, what I said is that 10% of the boards that are returned to us (so something like 0.2% of boards we sell), turn out to be due to hardware failure.

     

    For boards of this complexity with decent manufacturing processes and component sourcing you can expect 2-5% of boards coming off the assembly line to fail the diagnostics. With most of those it's easy to see what the problem is (a component was misaligned or placed backwards) and the board can be fixed by hand. Others are simply discarded. No boards are shipped that don't pass the diagnostics.

     

    As for international regulations, the main one is environmental: boards sold in Europe must be ROHS compliant and lead free, so ours are. Because these are components, not finished goods, they do not have to pass the usual consumer electronics end-user regs like UL listing and FCC clearance.

  • This is an interesting subject.
    As you said, some problems are due to defective boards, but how can one "prove" to you that the board was faulty when it was received and not damaged by the user (if not obvious)?


    How do you handle defective boards sold through one of your resellers (like JDrones)? 
    I have a Oilpan (bought from FapPah, now JDrones) that have a XY-gyro that does not work properly (see this thread). I have contacted Jani who said he would contact DIYDrones, but I feels like an extra step. Can I contact DIYDrones for support on this issue even though I did not buy the board from them (you)?

    And another question on the same note, lets say that the XY-gyro is defective due to user error, is the only option to buy a new board, or can the faulty component be replaced by the manufacturer (paid by the customer of course, since it would probably be at lot less than buying a whole new board).

  • Chris,

    just curious: despite being Ardu* family and alike DIY stuff, I wonder if there are any regulations that still have to be complied with. And if one's going to sell abroad, which country regulation holds ?

    Regarding failures on 10% of boards, what about some simple "burn in" ? I mean leaving the boards powered for some days. Infant mortality of components could still be detected to some extent without vibration or climatic tests.

     

    Regards

  • Okay, so zero liability, gotchya. Thanks Chris that url is the answer I was looking for, I've posted bug reports on the forums and they get moved to forums that noone looks at.

     

    Hi Greg, I do know c/c++, and have isolated the bug, the problem wasn't really the bug it's just, only getting it fixed within the main codebase, instead of applying my own patches every time a new release comes up. I'll go through the proper channels.

     

    Everything you guys do is great, and appreciated, please don't take my comments the way most do in the online mediums. Cheers :)

  • Jon, The course I would take, and have is to learn a little C++. Read though the code and figure it out. That's how I learned. If you don't like how it works, then change it. That's why its open source. You can go buy an Attopilot for 4 G's if you want PNP.

  • 3D Robotics
    Hi Jon,

    Open source software is free, and as such there is no contract, implicit or otherwise. Like most open source software, the code for the Ardu* family is created by the community, not a company. It's like Wikipedia--it's as good or bad as the volunteer community makes it.

    That said, the community has created an organizational structure--dev teams, issue trackers, version control, doc wikis etc--that is intended to create high-quality, maintainable, tested and documented code.

    Have you submitted your bug to the issue tracker? Nothing will be reviewed unless it's there. The dev team reviews the issues once a month, and tries to get to most of the bugs at least.

    http://code.google.com/p/ardupilot-mega/issues/list
  • Good to see you guys are taking a better stance than this than most people.


    What about the software? I realize the software is all open source, but that doesn't mean zero liability does it? What is a customer suppose to do when the software doesn't work as advertised? A return and refund is a little extreme, but what course should be taken to get a bug/feature issue resolved? I ask because I'm currently in that situation, and have had no luck getting a response.

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