3D Robotics

"The Private Drone Industry is Like Apple in 1984"

3689499679?profile=originalGood article at The Atlantic's Quartz site comparing DJI with 3DR. Sample quote:

The UAV industry is a fairly new one, and right now its main focus is on consumer products. That’s partially because it is growing from a consumer base: What has made them possible is the smartphone revolution, which drove down the price on the tiny electronic components needed to turn low-power remote control aircraft into flying robots that navigate, communicate, and sense. While defense contractors were making expensive and powerful drones for the US military, hobbyists were basically bolting iPhones onto remote-controlled helicopters.

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  • Here's the thing that makes this very, very different from PCs, or CB radios, or whatever wonderfully optimistic analogy you want to throw around: these platforms are mobile, and they carry huge privacy concerns and can be easily converted to dangerous uses.

    This is a familiar refrain if you're in the US, but let's just zero in on the latter point. The terrorism potential attached to private use of UAVs tracks pretty closely the improvements in micro-UAV autopilots and reduction in cost. It's not a question of if--but when--someone will attach an incendiary device to a micro-UAV and steer it like a mobile missile towards it target. (If guys were willing to do this with a few airliners, I see no reason why they wouldn't do this with 100 micro-UAVs at vastly less cost/planning.) It's pretty easy to envision this happening at a political rally, or a parade, or even the White House; while these things hardly have the thrust to carry large explosives the way a van loaded with fertilizer does, they are still easily made into targeted grenades. When an event like this happens (and it _will_), ALL of aerial R/C will be gone. And unlike with CBs or whatever other analogy you want to put forward, there is no part of society that will be supportive of this technology in private hands besides the hobbyists themselves -- not industry, not government, not a fearful and distrusting public. Circumstances like this sort of social consensus are exactly the times when prohibition is successful policy.

    Honestly, I don't even think this sort of security-and-fear scenario has to play out in the US, or Canada or Germany -- if it happens in Bulgaria that would probably be all the gov't in and the media in [insert country here] needs to clamp down decisively.

    You guys need to be prepared for the reality that we're marching to the end of unrestricted usage. Licenture and expense will be required in the very near future, and it'll be designed intentionally to reduce the number of users to manageable levels. It'll be unpleasant to be able to fly a UAV, and this'll basically un-do the progression towards "access to everyone" that's been going on over the last decade.

    /end crystal ball

  • The consensus I see forming here slightly, agrees no matter what course we need to take, ethics and public benefit are surely paramount to any campaign public or legislative.

    Maybe lets put the call out to anyone in the arena wanting to contribute, any with the experience, to start the ball rolling at least on something to address this obvious need that we know already will be a major part of any public campaign to steer this in favorable direction... If you envision any public service uses or have ideas for graphic art, video or still, that showcases the image of UAV operators in helpful scenarios, eye catching or attention grabbing scenes depicting UAV operators behaving in an organized manner in service to (think ARES or RACES ham radio emergency) help public figures in positive ways (cant be specific cause thats what Im asking others to com e up with, im brain dead right this moment) we can at least start doing the info-graphics at least getting as much a head start as possible....cause one things for sure, we cant wait or lolly around to get this thru committee and onto the campaign to grab- bull-by -horns politically, or this whole thing we fear will indeed kick our asses and turn out unfavorably.

    So to get a head start while the objectives list gets formulated, any bright ideas you might get in next couple weeks going about your normal work or play regarding projecting our interests in graphic and video art / imagery intended for presentation to local state and Federal officials to sway their perceptions of our machines and activities, write it down, draw thumbnails up, sketch it out on napkin, whatever...then just had idea now, ... lets have a community-wide contest or vote-type thing, (brains fading fast) uh, vote on the submitted art and ideas on which ones might be best to convince or otherwise project image thereof our initial target..(brains gone, ugh)  you know, uh, mmm, what im talkin about...   going to sleep,  sheeeesssh

  • I agree Mortimer that this will be too big to regulate. The CB analogy is a good one. For those not alive then, amateur radio had been heavily licensed, but the genie got out of the bottle in the early 70's with CB. Suddenly there were millions of them, and whatever regulation the FCC attempted was futile. So they just liberalized the rules even more, and opened up more channels.

    I worked at Radio Shack in '79, selling TRS-80 model 1's. When customers asked what "useful" purpose they might have, the only answers anyone could come up with was balancing your check book, or keeping a list of recipes. That's it. And we didn't have actual software to do that, you had to write your own in Basic. We had a couple of games, but serious people didn't consider that "useful".

    Everything else was in front of us. Spreadsheets. Word processors. Images. Digital video. The internet. And the games went from experimental toys people wrote in their basements, to a serious business.

    The UA industry I think will be similar. The only "useful" purpose most people can envision today is photographic. I guarantee there are many more things to be done. I'm chasing down at least two serious worldwide industries that have only just been hinted at in the literature. They'll take some additional technology that I'm familiar with, but no hardware I've yet found suitable for light UA vehicles. I'll post some questions about that in another thread.

  • Moderator

    +1 one on the market flooding, DJI claim to have already sold 7000 of those new Phantoms, that is since 8th Jan, AR.drone more than 500k sold worldwide. I expect DIYD has sold more than 20k autopilots worldwide by now. The FAA expect 30k UA to operate..... I think they have already wildly missed the mark.

    I would call a CB radio type situation for platforms less than 10kg AUW by that I mean the FCC had to give up trying to regulate CB in the 70s and so shall the FAA with UA.

    What DIYD should do is establish a set of standards and ethics by which to fly and carry on.

    There is plenty of safety information that should be promulgated and there is no point waiting for the FAA.

  • In the macro view of a leviathan bureaucracy, gov.org and the FAA have done little to advance ideas in a sensible manner and also considering legislation. There are many models one can look to in comparing uncharted or emerging technology. One can look to food production post "Dust Bowl" America and see the disastrous consequences we are faced with today. Small "organic" micro farms have emerged across the country in hopes of not only carving a more simpler homesteading lifestyle, but in experimentation harboring what the earth offers naturally to reap the maximum amount of nutrition for human health. This resurgence has done little to advance micro growers other than to increase government intrusion and heavy handed legislation, all on the heels of highly paid lobbyists on capital hill representing the largest of franken-corporations, Monsanto et al.

    Unfortunately, looking to the past, the government almost NEVER gives anything back that it has already taken (temporary taxes etc) nor so it seems have they done much to support small, common sense ideas of cutting edge technology.... follow the money as it were.

    I see nothing but disaster and regulation, perhaps to the point of groups like ours operating solely in our back yards full stop coming from the FAA's involvement.

    I feel there are two areas where we MAY be able to head off over-regulation, absolute market flooding of these small form UAV's to enable as many households already own them (which, in a way, this forum is helping the most in this area) and possible stepping up to the plate and helping to draft state level legislation, educating your local politicians about the positive uses for these platforms.

    State law can trump federal law in certain instances and if you can get in early enough and win the "hearts and minds" of your local legislators, it may be possible to have them on your side when the UAV police attempt to make in in-road to your state on behalf of Boeing.

  • Oh us silly americans...hehe

    it gonna be a one world state with one government anyways if guys like me die off eventually.

    So maybe we all should stop looking for our own answers...;0)

  • circuitburner, I think a lot of folks have similar thoughts to most of what you said.

    Gary, summer and balsa gliders sound pretty sweet to me, I'm ready for some warm weather.

  • Moderator

    Early adopters???? The civil UA world has started without the USA. Google CAP 722 to see how regs, privacy and general ops can be handled.

    +1 on what Joshua said about sensors as well.

    +1 on Circuitburner and events, I know Chris is keen as well. Perhaps they should happen at AMA fields to start changing attitudes from within.

    I must be an old coot I am taking my balsa glider out for a quick soar now. (summer here)

  • you know, early adopters have the opportunity (possibly the only opportunity we will get) to set the stage early enough to have considerable effects on coming legislation and restriction that we know will happen.

    We may not have answers to the problems identified, or even identified then all yet, but if we start now we can possibly keep conditions favorable to our cause.

    The one issue I see 1st with no time or thinking involved is going to be public perception and what the public perception becomes is what the politicians see and take action on.

    So, using no effort, objective #1 needs to be to produce the list of objectives...hehe

    now with 3 or 4 brain cells, I can still post #2 here in this paragraph...#2 being keep the focus on determining ways to keep public perception of civilian UAV operation on the favorable side and not slip into negative territory.

    Oh, I just drank a DP so I can fart out one more freebee here...#3 How can we as amatuers organize some carefully directed events involving our aircraft that showcase what we do in a way as to impress public about the image we seek to plant. Im not talking promoting for sales, or promoting to bring in more UAV fanatics (that in itself could be counter productive) ... Im talking promoting ethical operations benefiting the publc or society in general...Half staged and scripted purposefully to achieve this goal...

    In HAM radio its always been public service in the form of emergency communications and other actions complimenting "the good guys" like police, fire, and medical agencies..

    In Katrina, half the state of louisiana was without even basic phone service for months, forget internet of cell phones... and it was HAMs mobile temporary stations setup by local radio clubs that provided the bulk of communications in and out of that place for a long time... even providing messages in and out for law enforcement and hard to believe, the National Guard. So they found their prime niche in an area perhaps the private UAVs could also be seen as a valued asset.

    I have to stop with that last #3 cause my gulp of DP caloric energy has now been expended, and my brian is gasping for more....    you get the idea...  get these objectives (the 1st 2 at least) solidified, and then we can put whatever we want later as we create them...always keep the end goal in focus though...

  • That sounds really cool! 

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