Using a DJI 450 FlameWheel Quadcopter with the APM

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Hi, I previously set up a KKX525 with the APM2, but when one of my ESC's started fading, I thought I'd try something a little more upscale.

I have now put together a DJI 450F Flamewheel ARF including DJI motors, Opto ESCs and props from "RC-Drones" at a reasonable $180.00 and am quite happy with it at this point in it's evolution.

If you try this there are a few things you need to know, but no real problems.

Generally follow the downloadable instructions I have provided on the Arducopter Wiki for assembling and setting up and testing a quad copter and in addition see below.

1. If you get the ARF kit, it will come without instructions, but the manual can be downloaded from the DJI website under their FlameWheel support section. It is some help.

2. When you assemble the copter assemble the top board so that the narrow slots are in the front and the back and the wide slots are on each side.

3. Use blue or purple thread lock sparingly on all screws and try to keep it off the plastic. 

4. One of the nifty features of this quad is that the bottom board is also the power distribution board, heat the connection pads adequately to get a good wet bond with the ESC and Battery Wires.

5. You can cover the solder joints with liquid electrical tape or "Glyptol" if you can find it.

6. I tie wrapped each ESC under each arm with 2 tie-wraps front to back through the arm webbing.

7. You will need to add an external switching BEC, the DJI 30 amp Opto ESCs are great optically isolated ESC's but they do not include a built in BEC. I used a Castle 10 amp switcher for about $20.00 you can get cheaper ones from HobbyKing but you should use a switcher, they are much much more efficient. You do not need to cut or remove the ESCs power wire, it doesn't do anything.

8. You do not need to balance or tune the ESCs as shown on the Wiki (in fact you can't they are not programmable).

9. I recommend O-ring suspension mounting of the APM board between 4 standoffs secured at the ends of the long thin slots at the front and back of the top DJI board (assuming you put it in as I described in (2.) above.) Put a machine screw in the top of each standoff and suspend the APM board between them by putting a thin O-ring through each APM corner hole and passing the 2 loops over the top of the screw in each standoff. Size the O-rings so there is little or no APM board movement, they will still provide good vibration isolation. Too much free movement and they will cause handling lag. If you prefer you can mount a fiberglass or plastic board to the standoffs instead and Velcro or double side foam tape the APM board to it. I like the suspension method best though.

10. DJI supplies 2 sets of props, I recommend that for a 3 cell battery you use the longer 10" ones, Only DJI props will fit the self locking oval shaft of the motor unless you do what I did below. The shorter 8" props are for 4 cell use.

11. I didn't like the DJI props although they worked OK. They are light, flexible, noisy and would break easily. So I bored out some very nice GemFan 11" x 4.5 props that I was previously using on my KK to fit the outer diameter of the oval part of the motor shaft (about .31") and because of a thinner hub section I also had to add a washer under each prop. This is a very highly recommended modification, they are quieter, more efficient and will not break at the first unpleasant encounter. These are not the expensive carbon fiber Gemfans but the $2.50 carbon filled ones and they are still great, however looking at Innov8tive's web site I see they now have a 10" x 4.5 version of this prop already hubbed correctly for the DJI motors, buy these, they are a no brainer. My guess is if you use the stock ones you'll need new props soon anyway.

12. When starting the Flamewheel, it arms as per normal (throttle down and to the right) but if you do not spin the props within 10 seconds or so, the DJI Opto ESCs will shut down and you need to disarm (down and to the left) and then rearm again. Anytime you are on the ground longer than 10 seconds without turning the props you will need to rearm. This is not a big deal. You will quickly get used to it and given the capability of these things to shred flesh you will probably come to appreciate it as a worthwhile safety measure.

13. When you are setting up your board with only the USB connected, the ESCs beep continuously, ignore them.

14. When you turn your transmitter on and plug in the FlameWheel's battery, the ESCs should emit a short musical series and be quiet. You are then ready to arm and fly.

I have only covered substantial differences to the normal quadcopter setup procedure, but I highly recommend the Flamewheel 450, it flies quite well with standard PIDs but I will publish PID info later as I tweak it. (See Below).

Although the current stock PID's fly quite adequately, I have found the following changes decreased "twitchiness" and increased stability:

As of 12 / 8 / 2012

Reduce the Angular Rate PIDs P value from .175 stock to .145

Increase the Angular Rate PIDs I value from .010 stock to .030

Reduce the Stabilize PIDs P value from 4.5 stock to 4.0

The above will be revised as I continue to tweak.

Loiter will probably want some tweaking too and I will publish that after I have more extensive experience.

Roll and Pitch inputs are very sensitive so you need a light finger on the control sticks, but once you learn control with them I think you will be happy with them, If not you can probably detune them with the same PID's I am changing above.

I have a friend who has also successfully set up the Flamewheel F550 Hexacopter with larger motors and Graupner props following these procedures with such adaptations as are necessary with a Hex and he is using stock Hex PIDs.

Hope this helps, please feel free to ask questions I will respond as best I can.

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Comments

  • Isaac,

    I couldn't find anywhere to fit the EZ OSD so am flying without it - timed flights for the time being to <5 minutes.  Will also look at Minim OSD and see if I can get this configured nicely. I note that required cables are not provided in the kit - will lead to some guess work.

    And yep -the problem was with Arducopter max thrust settings - I have no idea why this setting was way down but fixed now. In attempting to fix the 'ankle-high' flying issue, I reprogrammed the ESCs many times..... all to no avail.

    MJ

  • Gary: just to clarify the graupner 10x5 are already 8mm hubs. No need to bore them. They work great on dji motors. That one English company I linked is the cheapest place I've found to buy them at about 8 dollars a prop they also sell them in sets for 16 dollars. They take random vacation days though so probably not the fastest to order through.
  • Hi Tim, Yes that shouldn't be a problem, the FlameGear landing gear / camera mount is light, but get the XP one not the one for the GoPro as it is better designed.

    And a small FPV transmitter like the one DIY has with a small super HAD FPV camera should be OK too.

    I'm carrying a 4000mah 3cell battery which is pretty heavy and still have lots of lift.

    However, recommend upgrade to the 10" GemFan DJI compatible props, stock props are too flimsy for the setup you are talking about and the GemFans are more efficient as well as being MUCH stronger.

    Or as Isaac Suggests, Graupner's are really, really good props (also expensive) but I think they need to be adapted for the DJI oval hubs. I bored out my 11" non DJI compatible GemFans to fit.

    And of course if you go to 4 cell you can really kick up the performance.

    That is one seriously maxed out Flamewheel Isaac, I might give a set of Graupner's a try myself, the ones you mention are actually only $12.00 a piece a lot cheaper than their bigger and fancier ones.

  • Tim: To answer your question. I can easily carry a gopro as well as a 6000mah 4S battery on mine. It comes to almost 1500 grams and I can still climb at 15 feet per second on a charged battery. I'm using stock motors and esc's from dji but I've replaced my props with graupner 10x5 e-props like it seems most people do when using the f550 or f450. I've tried apc, gemfans and the stock propellers and the Graupners work much better as far as stability and battery life go in my opinion. I'm able to get over 20 minutes of flight time with this setup.
    http://www.electricwingman.com/graupner-elektro-propeller-10x5-pair...

    Thanks for the help Gary. I think you're original understanding of my problem was right... It's not really a problem but just me expecting the APM2.5 to behave as well as the naza in stabilize. I've gotten used to it now.

  • Isaac,

    I thought your problem was horizontal wander in Stabilize mode, but if it is altitude wander that is certainly an issue and relates to current battery condition dropping.

    If I understand your issue correctly now, with the APM you can use Alt Hold mode to achieve an altitude stabilized hover.

    It uses the baro or if you have one the SONAR to maintain altitude below 20 feet.

    And if the SONAR is well shielded and spike free, it will hold altitude within a couple inches.

    One caveat if you want to change altitude it is easier to switch out of Alt hold mode to do so, although it does support manual adjustment in alt hold mode, at this time it is a bit crude.

  • Michael: I have an EZOSD but don't like it very much. I think I'm going to try the one from 3DRobotics since it uses the same sensors that the APM uses. Back when I was using Naza I really didn't like having to have 2 different gps units on top. Also the EzOSD gps didn't seem sensitive at all. Usually it wouldn't pick up enough satellites until I was a couple hundred feet in the air. So when I would come down it would start showing a negative altitude. 

    Also you mentioned that your max motor thrust was way down. Was this an issue with your arducopter settings or your ESC's?

  • It looks like right now expecting center stick to be hover just isn't practical. The Naza uses input from the altimeter to to adjust the throttle on the fly so that center stick is always hover. With this the throttle just ups the motor speed and the controller doesn't really care where hover is. Oh well.
    As far as leveling it I actually went to Home Depot and grabbed a $40 dollar level and walked around the store til I found a place on the floor that was actually level on both axes.

  • Isaac, just a thought, but the APM calculates center from each of the transmitter servo data stream extremes.

    Of course that isn't always actually stick center.

    Although they advise against it you could try a little trim adjustment.

    Also, when you set level in the APM configuration set up, ensure that your copter is dead level, that is really important.

  • I added a curve and it works pretty good. I was just hoping there was some way of adjusting it in the settings to get center stick to equal hover like it was on my dji naza. For a while I thought that Throttle Rate P would do that but apparently it doesn't affect it at all. I'm using a 4S battery but almost everyone else I found is using a 3S. I really like being able to get 25 minutes of flight time carrying a gopro though with my 6000mah 4S. Plus I have a lot of them sitting around from before I destroyed my hexacopter. Thanks for the input I'll keep checking back.

  • Hi Isaac, I have only modified my stabilize PIDs as shown above so far.

    If you are having trouble getting stable altitude control in Stabilize Mode I would suggest you add some expo to your throttle maybe 30 percent, that makes it easier to control in the center area, I have a friend who did that and it calmed the extra sensitive throttle way down. Also if you have ratcheting on your throttle get rid of it or minimize it so the ratchet doesn't override your manual input, altitude control is very subtle. I had to do this on my Aurora 9. In low wind conditions you should be able to achieve a solid hover with no continuous throttle input.

    You probably don't need to change anything for altitude hold, It should hold within a foot or two under light wind conditions.

    I haven't gotten around to Loiter yet but I suspect that the Loiter PID will want to be dialed back a bit based on the rapid response in pitch and roll in Stabilize.  

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