Catch 22 DIYD warranty terms

What happens if you get DOA electronics from any of the DIY stores?

The simple answer is nothing at all, and you should not expect to get a refund or a repair. This is why (qouted from the terms here at the DIYdrones store) :

Defective products manufactured in house will be replaced within 10 days ofreceipt, with the same item. The item has to be unused and nomodifications have to made on it. If there is evidence that the producthas been modified or that fix has been done on it, we will not be madereponsible and therefore will not provide an exchange.

The Aeroquad store has similar terms. I found this to be completely unreasonable, because this means that I cant even solder the headers on, which makes it impossible for me to test whether or not it works! A beautiful example of "Catch 22" I think...

But hey, it gets even better. The DIY drones Asia (FahPah) store completely disclaims any and all warranties:

This site and the materials and products on this site are provided "as is" and without warranties of any kind, whether express or implied. Tothe fullest extent permissible pursuant to applicable law, Fah PahElectronics Co., Ltd. disclaims all warranties, express or implied,including, but not limited to, implied warranties of merchantability andfitness for a particular purpose and non-infringement.

But at least they have the nerve to tell you straight up, that there is absolutely no warranty whatsoever (Provided you can decipher it)! I do beleive that is the first time I´ve seen such terms from any shop that wanted to be taken seriously!

It is pretty clear to me that the people behind the AC project does not provide even a basic warranty, and they are making it impossible for the custumers to work out if their hardware is flawed or DOA. Where I live such terms would be illegal!

I am not asking for any kind of extended warranty or saying that unreasonable claims and peoples own screwups should be covered! But a basic coverage against factory screwups, DOA´s and hardware flaws is the least the custumers can expect. Especially now that ArduCopter has been brought to market as a complete kit!

Buying from any of the DIY drones stores is basically then a gamble: I might get a working unit, but finding out whether or not it works voids the warranty anyway - provided I even got one in the first place!

But there is a solution for this - at least if you live in the EU: Buyyour APM/Oilpan from a EU-dealer like Coolcomponents. They are bound byEU law,that states that any unprovoked fault arising within the first 6months is assumed to have been present when the product left thefactory and it is up to dealer to prove it was not. And companies cantdisclaim their way out of this!

But to me its not a case of law, which can be used for squat when it all comes down, unless you have the time and money for court-litigation.

To me the most imprtant question really is: Can i trust the store to take me seriously, should I happen to get a DOA or factory-flawed unit? Seeing those disclaimers and warranty terms certainly makes me doubt that! And as huge multirotor fan I find it really sad that this great project is beeing brought to market this way!

But what do YOU think. Please voice your opinion!

I'd suggest, if a person was going to solder the headers on anyway, that they buy the components with them already installed. I'd even go so far as to suggest that the store only sell them that way, then if someone chooses to remove them and solder up wires to them, that would void the warranty as it is a modification.

Soldering compnents like these is a tricky business, overheat a trace and you could cook a component and not know till you try to use it. I wouldn't expect anyone to warranty that...

Perhaps, and maybe there is, a forum discussion on how to properly solder things like headers, jumpers, etc., on the APM and IMU components? I work for an equipment rental hose and when we do soldering we have a temperature controlled soldering station to maintain proper soldering conditions for whatever we do. They cost a bit more, but if it means fried compnents, or not. Its worth it.

This hobby is not cheap/inexpensive.

If you want an Arducopter to fly around and have fun with, by the pre-built and tested kit. Don't modify it except for the software and necessary jumpers, etc. Your warranty should be good, then. If you want to hack and do your own thing, buy the compnents, do your work and take the risk. Others shouldn't pay for your mistakes. (I am using your in general terms, not anyone specific).

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Joel October 29, 2010 at 2:28pm

I would just like to say: I recieved a bad FTDI cable from DIYDrones.com and they sent me a new one w/out even requiring me to send the origonal back to them. The new cable also did not work and now they have offered to test it free of charge, and i'm sure would send me a new one if it ends up I got a bad batch or something. It may only be an FTDI cable, but I have recieved nothing but good customer service from them.
Ron Jacobs October 25, 2010 at 8:01pm

I'd suggest, if a person was going to solder the headers on anyway, that they buy the components with them already installed. I'd even go so far as to suggest that the store only sell them that way, then if someone chooses to remove them and solder up wires to them, that would void the warranty as it is a modification.

Soldering compnents like these is a tricky business, overheat a trace and you could cook a component and not know till you try to use it. I wouldn't expect anyone to warranty that...

Perhaps, and maybe there is, a forum discussion on how to properly solder things like headers, jumpers, etc., on the APM and IMU components? I work for an equipment rental hose and when we do soldering we have a temperature controlled soldering station to maintain proper soldering conditions for whatever we do. They cost a bit more, but if it means fried compnents, or not. Its worth it.

This hobby is not cheap/inexpensive.

If you want an Arducopter to fly around and have fun with, by the pre-built and tested kit. Don't modify it except for the software and necessary jumpers, etc. Your warranty should be good, then. If you want to hack and do your own thing, buy the compnents, do your work and take the risk. Others shouldn't pay for your mistakes. (I am using your in general terms, not anyone specific).
Knuckles904 October 25, 2010 at 1:54pm

I understand your feeling 420, yes it is frustrating to see those words from any store you may be purchasing not insignificant dollars worth of components from. In reality, it isnt normally the stated warranty that matters, its the reputation built by that store. I can speak to the very well handled return and replacement process I experienced from the DIYdrones store when my Oilpan had a soldering defect on arrival. I contacted jordi and the store, they gave me an RMA, I sent it back, and they replaced my order. Sure it was a little frustrating, and at first scary since that was 150$ I could have been out. But through the successful interaction, I now have faith in the store and will feel more comfortable buying more from them and encouraging others to do the same. I recommend everyone do your homework before spending any amount of money at a store. More than likely, there will be some good or bad reviews floating around somewhere on the internet
Dean Lamborn October 25, 2010 at 11:21am

The difference is the word "modification". You are taking that word to mean normal work done per the instructions given.

DIYDrones is saying, and the way I would take it, that if you cut a trace, add circuitry, or drill a hole then all bets are off.

Buying anything runs that risk. If you had a gold plated warranty from a store that doesn't mean they will honor it. Or be in business long enough, or . . .

Buying through the internet adds a layer of complexity. You may not have any idea where the real store is located. Everybody gets burned eventually.

Me, I don't expect any problems. My parts are sitting in a box and I won't apply power for another month at least. Not worried.
Simone Chiaretta October 25, 2010 at 8:31am

Wow... that is really weird. Coming from the EU I always give for granted that everything has the 2 years compulsory warranty
But I trust people and I'm pretty sure Jani will replace the APM, the IMU board, motors and ESC if they don't work after I assemble them.
3D Robotics

Chris Anderson October 25, 2010 at 4:45am

Have you ever tried returning a product to the DIY Drones store? You'll find that Jordi almost always accepts them back and offers full replacements. That said, we can't guarantee that we will do so in all cases, because of the nature of the kit business is that many failures are due to customers messing things up in the soldering process, which we can't control. But there is a broad class of failures that we can easily recognize as factory problems (one sensor on a board not working, or dead cables, for instance) and we always replace those. Our policy is the same as Sparkfun, Adafruit and virtually every other US retailer in the electronic kit business.

If you're still not happy with the policy, you can always buy from other retailers outside the US, which is why we support stores in Europe and elsewhere. The choice is entirely yours.
Moderator

Gary Mortimer October 25, 2010 at 4:19am

Um, those might be the written terms but I know the guys are very helpful with issues that come about.

I guess you have to look at the big picture, a few years ago when most of us started just a GPS was about the cost of a complete setup these days. Not quite throw away prices but getting there.

I can't speak for Chris or Jordi but I am sure the support in the event of any issues will be adequate.

Pretty sure Chris will chip in, I am sure there will many chats about the T&Cs

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Catch 22 DIYD warranty terms

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