I just wanted to make a post to specifically address the issue of vibrations on helicopters, as I am seeing quite a few logs which exhibit excessive vibrations. This not only affects Loiter, but can also affect Stabilize as the AHRS system loses track of which way is "down". This can result in you actually having to fight the machine to keep it level.
Now, I comment so often on this, I begin to wonder if people are starting to think "he just says that about everything". So I want to provide an example of what I consider low vibration. The attached image is from my Trex 500. There's really not a lot special about the machine. It's just a good quality, solid build, with attention to detail and balancing. It started out as an HK500FBL TT, but now is almost entirely Align, as well as some other upgrades, but nothing fancy. The vibration damping system is... simply a Pixhawk, mounted sideways on the frame using the 5mm thick black foamy double-sided pads that 3DR supply with the Pixhawk. That's it. I find this 3M mounting tape to be extremely effective, and dead-easy to use. I've started using it in place of my other elaborate systems, since it pretty much just works.
I'm actually amazed when I look at this graph. It took me a long time to achieve something like this on my other helis. This one I got it right pretty early, using the same principles I learned on the others.
Compare that to an example from a machine with high vibration:
These are the signals coming from the accelerometers on the APM or Pixhawk. As you can see, my log provides a clean signal which the AHRS can use to keep track of which way is "down". There is a bit of vibration (the small lumpiness) but you can clearly see the motions of the airframe (the larger waves). I was flying aggressively in this log which is why you see big motions.
When comparing to the example with high vibration, it's pretty hard to see where the airframe motions are because they are lost in the "noise" from the vibration. The system tries it's best to extract a signal from this, but it's not great.
Now, this is not to say that everybody needs to achieve what I have. But the X and Y axis need to be lower than +/-2, and the Z-axis should be lower than 5-15. In the example above, the Z axis is actually not bad at all.
So how do you reduce vibrations?
- Make sure all shafts are straight. Check them any time blades touch the ground. All "clone" shafts come pre-bent.
- Make sure all bearings run smooth. Feeling them by hand, they should be... smooth. If they are notchy, they cause vibration. Most clone bearings, and even some genuine Align bearings are notchy right from the package. Again, these need to be checked anytime blades touch the ground.
- I find 3 main-shaft bearing supports help a lot. Most machines don't come like that anymore, I retrofit them into everything. All deep-groove radial bearings have radial free-play. Even the best quality ABEC-7 bearings do, they have to for assembly purposes. Therefore it's impossible to have a stable main shaft that is only supported by 2 bearings. 3-bearing systems are usually "over-constrained", meaning the shaft will be snug going in. This eliminates the radial free-play.
- Blades must be statically balanced in a balancer. Check them! Many blades do not come balanced. I also do a dynamic balance. What this means is that I use tape to make sure that the blades not only balance on a balancer, but are also *exactly* the same weight measured on a scale with 0.01 Gram accuracy. It happens often that the heavy blade goes up on a balancer, so you add weight to it. Now it's even heavier. So it balances on a balancer, but soon as you spin it up, there's an imbalance because it's CG must be further inboard than the light blade.
- Blades must be tracked. I exclusively use turnbuckles for the pitch links, with Left-hand threads on one end, and Right-Hand on the other. Heli Option is a nice source for these. They allow infinitely precise adjustments.
- Main gears, make sure they run straight and true and don't wobble excessively. Most clone gears come pre-bent.
- Make sure the frame is stiff. Obviously, make sure all your screws are good and tight. Use Loctite. But more than that, I find most frame designs lacking in stiffness. I try to use after-market frame sides that are thicker than normal. I also try to replace all the plastic pieces with CNC cut aluminum. So, the frame bottom, battery tray, bearing blocks, motor mount.. everything, even the tail boom mount if I can find one. All of this increases the weight of the heli. But they vibrate so much less, it's well worth the effort in a UAV application, particularly if trying to do any imaging.
- Head setup. The head should be well set up, the pitch links have to move freely. But with minimal slop. Any stickiness in the head will result in vibrations.
- Tail system. Again, this all needs to be well set up, good bearings, shafts straight, blades balanced. Tail drivetrains are particularly problematic. I always use at least two Torque-tube bearing supports. If the kit only uses 1, add another. Make sure the tail rotor shaft is straight!
I used to use a lot of clone kits, but it's just gotten to the point where I spent more time trying to solve problems with them that I don't bother anymore. You constantly have to check parts for straightness, binding, manufacturing mistakes, etc. I do use a lot of upgrade parts, such as from KDE, Heli Option, and Tarot. Some clones such as Tarot and ALZRC might be OK. But any no-name kits, and most of the stuff from Hobby King are just not acceptable quality.
Replies
My loiter D is zero and mine holds position great. In my opinion if it is flying good in Stab and Alt Hold then it is a P, I or Imax issue causing the fore and aft drift. It doesn't look like it is toilet bowling in the video, just drifting forward and backwards. Could also be a INAV TC XY issue. Hard to give any good opinion without a parameter file to look at to see if anything is way off.
Regards,
David R. Boulanger
Joe, Does it drift around like that when loitering at a higher altitude so that ground effects are not involved. Post your parameters.
Regards,
David R. Boulanger
Joe
Here is a video of what I was seeing in loiter.
My Movie.mp4
post your configuration what are your pid's that is not oscillation it is much more violent that is slow and smooth looks like over correction turn up the d slightly do you have your linkage on long servo arms also check your rate settings in your radio make sure they are not turned down
Hi Rob,
Just wondering if you've done a TT vs Belt drive vibe comparison.
Rob,
Here is the latest log file. Flew much better. Still a bit of oscillation in pitch. What should i adjust? I desperately need you guidance to dial it in more.
Thanks
Joe
2014-09-27 11-55-27.log
Here are the 2 files from the last flights
2014-09-05 14-17-37.log
I only see the one log?
I looked at it, I'd say that definitely the roll/desiredl and pitch/desired are quite a bit better than before. Especially the roll. The pitch starts out OK, but then towards the end develops a large offset, do you know why? Did something move? Could also be a CG problem.
When I say it looks OK, what I mean is that the constant offset is better (except for the pitch at the end). However, it still looks too "loose". It's not tracking as well as I like to see. This will be down mostly to your P and FF terms now.
Your vibration level is now a bit high though. It's the roll vibration that is the problem mostly. Check your blade tracking, you may have thrown it off while working on the head? Or the usual's, blade balance, bent shafts, main gear, etc.
For the Alt Hold, it's hard to say at this point if the problem is the vibration, or just the Alt Hold PID settings. I'd guess it's actually just the settings. It kind of looks to me like you need more Thr_Accel_P term, but the weird thing is that you already have a lot at 0.75. Normally I have this down around 0.4 or so.
Does the vertical shake only happen right when you change modes? If so, then that actually would be because it's too high. If it continues to shake throughout the whole Alt Hold flight, then you need to consider the frequency of the shake. If it's short and sharp, then it's too much P term. If it's long and kind of bobbing up and down, then it's either too much I-term or not enough P-term, or a combination thereof. From what I see in the logs, it appears to be a slower shake.
Rob,
Thanks for getting back to me on this. I am also leaning in the same directions as you. i think while i was messing with the head I might have messed up the tracking. during the next flight I will check and adjust. I verify the CG on every flight so I am leaning away from CG as to the culprit. Blades, shaft etc... all checked and seem to be in spec.
The Alt hold is not a vertical (up and down shake). When I switch to Alt hold it begins oscillating side to side. If I switch on the ground it is fine. I similar to when I was tuning the Rate_P. It is actually a fast sharp shake. I will look at your suggestions and try.
If this doesn't work I might look at going back to the beginning and reseting all parameters and starting from scratch. I might have missed something.
Thanks for the help.
This is fun and nerve racking all at the same time..... Great fun.
Joe