Posted by Justinclouds on January 31, 2015 at 9:21am
DIY experts,I have a specific application. I need a high endurance disposable platform to make measurements in clouds and storms. Recovery is not important. The UAV would be equipped to transfer data to ground control station in near real time. Once data is obtained, recovery will be attempted. If recovery is not possible due to storm conditions, the UAV will be abondoned. Subsequent mission would be conducted with an identically equipped UAV.Important requirements:1. Cruise speed ~ minimum 50 knots2. Flight time (endurance) at cruise speed ~ 20 hours3. Payload (with full fuel onboard) ~ 3 kg4. Cost ~ less than $5,000 for airframeI know requirements are challenging but each will have to be specified for this project. Thank you all for your feedback!
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Aerosonde did exactly this sort of thing 15+ years ago with a twin boom pusher, superficially similar to a Muggin. I'm sure they can sell you what you need, but they are part of AII now so not at $5K :)
That aircraft has some interesting trade-offs. Catapult launch (or car rooftop contraption in the early versions) and belly or net landing, so it probably won't slow down much. The Muggin landing gear was a weak point in the version we used (it may have improved in future versions). The Aerosonde looks higher AR than the Muggin, but given NASA flew one version of them into cyclones I imagine those long thin wings are light and highly loaded == expensive. A few $k materials cost for the airframe sounds plausible but up-front investment in tooling and per-airframe labor components would be significant.
There used to be an interesting narrative online (sorry, couldn't find it now) about their eventually successful Atlantic crossing attempts in the 90's. The one that landed was full of rainwater (yikes!), they lost one due to using the wrong kind of sticky tape somewhere - exciting stuff, really pushing the envelope. Deliberately flying into storms means you probably want a high stall margin so you don't loose control with tail-gusts, so a different set of compromises to their long distance case.
I've played with the thought experiment of building a small, fast, fully sealed, lightening-proof chevron wing for flying into the big cumulus storm clouds we sometimes get around here, to see if I could catch and survive the 8km purple updraft. How heavy is your instrumentation? could you launch something like that into your storm from a long-range mother-ship?
james sowell > Chris GoughFebruary 3, 2015 at 9:54pm
Justinclouds > Chris GoughFebruary 3, 2015 at 9:52pm
The instrumentation would be 3 kg. NOAA moved to the mother-ship idea. But it's a big mother! They use the P3 to launch a Coyote UAV into the storm from a chute on the airplane. From what I've read the Muggin doesn't have a good wing for long endurance. Using manned aircraft as a mother-ship increases cost which reduces long term feasibility.
your best bet could be telemaster with a modified high lift aerofoil. wingspan 2 meters. I tried 10cc evolution gas engine. with 1.2 ltr of fuel. it gave three hours of cruise with a 11x6 prop. the max you can get is 10 hrs. the speed would be much lower 30 knots since it has a high glide aerofoil.
Replies
May I suggest the PaperDrone Disposable concept for Pixhawk?
http://ospheric.com
http://diydrones.com/forum/topics/new-paper-drone-concept-in-ultra-...
Hi Well you need to talk to the folks at Johns Hopkins Applied physics Labs in Md,also a talk with the Navy will help ...WCH
Aerosonde did exactly this sort of thing 15+ years ago with a twin boom pusher, superficially similar to a Muggin. I'm sure they can sell you what you need, but they are part of AII now so not at $5K :)
That aircraft has some interesting trade-offs. Catapult launch (or car rooftop contraption in the early versions) and belly or net landing, so it probably won't slow down much. The Muggin landing gear was a weak point in the version we used (it may have improved in future versions). The Aerosonde looks higher AR than the Muggin, but given NASA flew one version of them into cyclones I imagine those long thin wings are light and highly loaded == expensive. A few $k materials cost for the airframe sounds plausible but up-front investment in tooling and per-airframe labor components would be significant.
There used to be an interesting narrative online (sorry, couldn't find it now) about their eventually successful Atlantic crossing attempts in the 90's. The one that landed was full of rainwater (yikes!), they lost one due to using the wrong kind of sticky tape somewhere - exciting stuff, really pushing the envelope. Deliberately flying into storms means you probably want a high stall margin so you don't loose control with tail-gusts, so a different set of compromises to their long distance case.
I've played with the thought experiment of building a small, fast, fully sealed, lightening-proof chevron wing for flying into the big cumulus storm clouds we sometimes get around here, to see if I could catch and survive the 8km purple updraft. How heavy is your instrumentation? could you launch something like that into your storm from a long-range mother-ship?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spirit_of_Butts_Farm
The instrumentation would be 3 kg. NOAA moved to the mother-ship idea. But it's a big mother! They use the P3 to launch a Coyote UAV into the storm from a chute on the airplane. From what I've read the Muggin doesn't have a good wing for long endurance. Using manned aircraft as a mother-ship increases cost which reduces long term feasibility.
your best bet could be telemaster with a modified high lift aerofoil. wingspan 2 meters. I tried 10cc evolution gas engine. with 1.2 ltr of fuel. it gave three hours of cruise with a 11x6 prop. the max you can get is 10 hrs. the speed would be much lower 30 knots since it has a high glide aerofoil.
IMG_5441.JPG
No offence and i'm probably wrong, but this all sounds like a university assignment you want someone else to do for you.
Any links your actual project? Cheers.
No offense and yes you are wrong.
MUGIN Twinboom UAV platform
You are looking at 2 liters (almost 2 kgs) of fuel per hour, so if you want 20 hours.......
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