Why NAZA work without PIDS tuning and APM not?


All my friends that flying NAZA asking me why i did not buy DJI NAZA as it work from the box.... I build my F450  based on APM 2.6 and still tuning it... Well it still fly like a boat on the sea.. Lots of oscillation etc. My friends have NAZA and they flying without problem :( What is so special with NAZA that APM don't have? I can't make an autotune because i use dx6i so do not know how to setup to make a channel for it... The worst thing is that they have less knowledge and experience then me in RC (i fly helis 600 and 450 size) and they are flying the quads with DJI NAZA and my quad is unflyable because those PIDs thing... WHY NAZA is ready to fly?? 

My setup, logs and video how it wooble...


F450 frame


DJI 2212 Motors with 10x38 props

3DR APM2.6 with external compass

3S 2200 40C Lipo

Spectrum dx6i TX with AR6210 with sattelite reciver.

3DR Power Module for APM

I use arducopter 3.1.2 firmware




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    • Me?  Don't I wish!  Maybe I'd get some cool free stuff.  

      But nope.  You can check me out, I've been on here for ages.  xtrmtrk on other forums.

  • I've liked you, I cant fly. But, just read carefully, you will fly perfectly. I'm sure about that! even when you use stock PID

  • To answer your original question: "Why is NAZA ready to fly?" - I believe DJI is doing a bit of constant auto-tuning.  An interesting experiment is to radically change propeller sizes on a NAZA controlled craft.  For the first second or two after the prop change, it will wobble a bit, but very quickly stabilize.  I believe this shows that some learning is going on, if not all the time, at least during the first couple seconds of flight.  

    I suspect the limits of this ability to learn and adapt cover most popular sized craft, but it has its limits.  Proof is if you try something way out of its sweet spot - like John McGrath's 1m Heavy Lift Y6 - it can't auto-correct and it forces you to do manual tuning, just like an APM.  You'll see the same issues if you go from an extremely soft to a very stiff propeller.

    Theoretically, this same approach could be used to help stabilize in windy conditions.

    I love the variety of approaches in this field.  Always something to learn, always something interesting to study!

    • OK, why so APM do not have those Auto-tuning? It will much help for people like me... :( It cannot to be hardcoded? 
      Confused... I buy the APM because of the waypoints.. Never think how hard it will be to tune the thing.. Yep its my ignorant... I go back to try set up the auto tune.. But i have the dx6i radio... to less channels i think... 

    • Well, first of all, because auto-tuning is very hard.  Leonard has done a great job of it, but it still has to be invoked with a switch.  We're not ready to have it running full-time.

      Second thing to consider, is that with manual tuning, the APM can be made to fly ANY copter.

      The Naza simply *cannot* be made to fly some copters no matter what you do, because the parameters for the auto-tuning do not allow it to.

    • APM does have autotune. Channel 7 option in the parameters. Enable ALThold then switch on AutoTune. But your copter needs to be stable to start with in order to complete the autotune.

      I'm a total noob and this is my first build. But I have mine flying rock solid with default settings. I have not done auto trim or auto tune yet and my deadcat flies great. 

      Calibrate the ESC's

      Use the Wizard calibration for your setup.

      Balance the props, use the anti vibe gel on the FC, mount the GPS/Compas solid (no wiggle), get the quad balanced near it's center.

      Do the compass calibrations until it matches another compass. Mission Planner should match the direction of the other compass. 

      Do a Compassmot test. Mine is 4%. Lower the better. Manual says 30% or lower is OK, but I'd say less than 10%. 

      Do a motor test and pay attention to how the motors spin. You might have a bad motor. I did. It didn't spin spin up quite as fast as the others. That caused most of my problems, once fixed flying great. 

      Now I have RTL, Loiter all working.  


    • It's an engineering design decision.  APM offers you MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more configurability.  With APM you can control everything, and use it on many different kinds of R/C gear.  It's a much more versatile device.  You'll never see a NAZA controlling an autonomous ground rover!


      Also, remember that until the recent availability of PixHawk controllers, APM was running on a very constrained system where every byte of memory and every CPU cycle was critical.  NAZA runs on much more capable base hardware with a faster CPU, great on-board floating point capabilities and plenty more memory.  Good-old APM FCs are running close to their limits as far as functionality goes.  Features like "learning" usually require a lot more horsepower.

    • ...as to Yours last sentence... You just tell me to buy NAZA.. :/ as its better.. ehhh  

    • Ok Bruce.. Let assume that i'm a complete idiot... What i should i do to make it fly as stable like my micro quad with multiwii (it have 7cm across but i can punch it and it will always stable even in wind :)  I have to make a little changes with's  pids... ???

  • 3D Robotics

    First, the default settings on APM should be fine for most copters. If, however, your configuration is outside the normal range, you don't need to fiddle with PIDs at all. There are just three sliders to adjust, in both Mission Planner and APM planner. The second one is probably all you need for good performance. 


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