Announcing APM 2.5!

I’m pleased to announce the new APM 2.0 revision, better known as APM2.5!

But before you start screaming that you just got an APM 2.0, let me explain that there’s NO difference in performance at all between the two, the board is still the same in terms of functionally and it runs exactly the same code as APM 2.0. We just took the liberty of throwing in a few new universal connectors in there (so accessories can be cross compatible with the new PX4 and protect the user from connecting the cable in the wrong direction), some production improvements that will allows to manufacture it faster and finally we added some protection features to protect it from those reverse polarity/short circuit lovers.

Here goes the full list of changes (you already know all its features):

No more shield/daughterboard: magnetometer and dataflash were moved to the main board, making it easier to assemble, repair and hack.
No more on-board GPS, but we added a new 6-pins DF13 connector for our new GPS cable standard (PX4) and kept the old but reliable Molex (EM-406) connector for old GPS compatibility.
The old radio-modem connector is gone and now is being replaced by our new 6-pins DF13 connector (like the GPS, because both are UART’s. Got it?), this will make it compatible with PX4 and prevents users from blowing up the UART mux.
We added a second protection fuse and diode (you are no longer required to solder it yourself) for extra reverse polarity and short circuit protection.
The old I2C connector is gone and has been replaced by our new 4-pins DF13 connector (yeah PX4 compatible. Oh wait correction… None of both (PX4 & APM2.5) are compatible with each other, we created this standard together as a team, but I have to give the average of the credits to PX4).
Added a “mystery” 6-pin DF13 Connector that will be used later. I know you like surprises so please stay tuned. No big deal but is really cool and will save you some soldering here and there.
Added “Magnetometer Jumper” that allows you to disable the on-board magnetometer, so you can attach an external one.
Added extra LED attached to the PPM encoder (Atmega32-U2) on pin PC7. This will allows us later to use it as PPM status indication and leave those poor TX/RX LED’s do their intended job.

Those who ordered the APM2.0 and are still waiting for it (only if is not shipped yet) will have the option to upgrade to the new APM2.5, but you will be required to wait an extra couple of weeks for production to begin. For upgrades please send us an email to sales@3drobotics.com.

If you want to order one now you can get the assembled version here and the unassembled version here (for those who want their choice of RC connector: straight or right-angled). They will begin shipping in a week or so, but if there is a huge flood of orders, the backlog for any individual order may grow to 2-4 weeks. We're making them at the new Tijuana facility, so we hope that we'll be able to keep up with demand much better than we have in the past. We're committed to shrinking all delays, and our investment in the Tijuana facility is just one sign of this.

The APM 2.0 enclosures will not fit this new board, so new enclosures are on their way. If you buy an APM 2.5 now, you will get a $4.99 credit for a free enclosure with your next order (the enclosures should be in in about a month). Also, APM 2.5 will ship with an adapter cable for the 3DR/Xbee radios, converting from the APM 2.5 DF13 connector to the radios' conventional 6-pin connectors. Eagle files for the boards will be posted in the next few days.

@Tony: I feel your pain, and I understand what you are saying. But the reality here is that this is more of a grass roots community operation than it is a big commercial operation. There are constant, in part volunteer driven advancements being made every single day. The APM2.5 board (and future designs) are always being worked on, and there is much less time between having a working board and releasing it than you might guess. If 3DR/DIYDrones announce a board in advance of it being production ready, then they may have to retract that statement and everyone complains that nothing gets released. On the other hand, having been a community member for some time, I've picked up on hints from time to time that made me realize that sometimes the final board design (and the decision to go ahead with it) is just a day or two before the announcement....A week before and it's not even a sure thing that the product will be released at all (something would be, eventually, but it might not be that design or that product...)

However, one thing that should be emphasized here is that they are essentially the same board. They have the same chips, a different layout, the same general shape, and a few different connectors, but its the same code. So this is a revision to address some issues, improve.... if you'd rather have "3DR ... a lot to learn about customer service" then we might see deliberate delays in releasing improvements as they are available because the folks who bought them two weeks before did not feel left out... but that means delaying known improvements for a board that wasn't ready for production just days before (and might have been scrapped entirely if it wasn't proving to be an improvement) and that is product stagnation, good for commercial business perhaps, but not as in line with the DIY spirit, don't you think?

But I do sympathize. If you've been around for the last six or eight months, then you will have seen the discussions about ARM and about 32 bit. You know we will eventually get there too... and that will be a big deal, I suspect, for our entire community. However, it's not clear when that will happen, as the entire industry is waiting on Arduino's progress. APM2.5 is an exciting set of improvements, but ultimately, it is a set of tweaks to the APM2.0. I have three APM2.0's (and three APM1) and I paid for each one also from my hard earned money.... but I'm using all six, and plan to use all six long after they've become obsolete, and I would rather not have DIYDrones hold up releasing improvements because I just bought the prior version last week just so I can feel I've gotten more value out of it. Nearly all the differences between APM2 and APM2.5 can be had with a tiny bit of solder and a few differently wired cables. Yes, they are tweaks, and yes, they make the boards a little nicer, but its fundamentally the same board, all the same chips, but the most important change is that it makes them easier to produce, more reliable to produce, which addresses the more important customer service challenges that 3DR has been struggling with for the APM2.

Just another perspective.....but I do sympathize with you. I just don't think the answer is to hold up a release once they've gotten something that is an improvement, nor foreshadow a product that is still actively being developed and might not be ready this week or next week, or ever. If there is a significant issue discovered with APM2.5, I'd want them to release APM2.51 or whatever, as soon as it was available, and not based on an arbitrary marketing schedule. This is, after all, DIYDrones, not Acme Commercial Drones...

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Comments

Tony Heaton July 28, 2012 at 8:08pm

No, 2.5 is announced today and 2.0 is basically gone. 2.5 has had to have been in the works for months and a release date had to have been known for at least a month or two. If I had know that 2.5 would be coming in a month, I could have made a decision of buying 2.0 or waiting for 2.5. Now that I understand that the ship times listed should be doubled or tripled, waiting and extra 2 to 4 weeks for 2.5 would have been an option.

The way the development process was described above is, in my opinion, asinine, at least with respect to customer service. If your intent is to get as quickly as possible to a government contract and desire the help of customers to work out bugs, then this process makes perfect sense. In comparison, Apple's product release process now looks like consumer bliss.
Jon July 28, 2012 at 8:04pm

Guys, thanks for your relentless innovation.

@everyone I don't think it is appropriate for people to be upset that we keep seeing such rapid development. If you always wait for the latest and greatest, you will be on the sideline. I have a 2.0, will buy a 2.5 and probably a 3.0.

@tony If the owner replying to you Saturday night is not customer service, then I would love to know what is. 2 weeks is acceptable for quitting a job, should be acceptable for a product release. Perhaps we need a convention ala Apple?
Moderator

Michael Pursifull July 28, 2012 at 8:04pm

@Tony: I feel your pain, and I understand what you are saying. But the reality here is that this is more of a grass roots community operation than it is a big commercial operation. There are constant, in part volunteer driven advancements being made every single day. The APM2.5 board (and future designs) are always being worked on, and there is much less time between having a working board and releasing it than you might guess. If 3DR/DIYDrones announce a board in advance of it being production ready, then they may have to retract that statement and everyone complains that nothing gets released. On the other hand, having been a community member for some time, I've picked up on hints from time to time that made me realize that sometimes the final board design (and the decision to go ahead with it) is just a day or two before the announcement....A week before and it's not even a sure thing that the product will be released at all (something would be, eventually, but it might not be that design or that product...)

However, one thing that should be emphasized here is that they are essentially the same board. They have the same chips, a different layout, the same general shape, and a few different connectors, but its the same code. So this is a revision to address some issues, improve.... if you'd rather have "3DR ... a lot to learn about customer service" then we might see deliberate delays in releasing improvements as they are available because the folks who bought them two weeks before did not feel left out... but that means delaying known improvements for a board that wasn't ready for production just days before (and might have been scrapped entirely if it wasn't proving to be an improvement) and that is product stagnation, good for commercial business perhaps, but not as in line with the DIY spirit, don't you think?

But I do sympathize. If you've been around for the last six or eight months, then you will have seen the discussions about ARM and about 32 bit. You know we will eventually get there too... and that will be a big deal, I suspect, for our entire community. However, it's not clear when that will happen, as the entire industry is waiting on Arduino's progress. APM2.5 is an exciting set of improvements, but ultimately, it is a set of tweaks to the APM2.0. I have three APM2.0's (and three APM1) and I paid for each one also from my hard earned money.... but I'm using all six, and plan to use all six long after they've become obsolete, and I would rather not have DIYDrones hold up releasing improvements because I just bought the prior version last week just so I can feel I've gotten more value out of it. Nearly all the differences between APM2 and APM2.5 can be had with a tiny bit of solder and a few differently wired cables. Yes, they are tweaks, and yes, they make the boards a little nicer, but its fundamentally the same board, all the same chips, but the most important change is that it makes them easier to produce, more reliable to produce, which addresses the more important customer service challenges that 3DR has been struggling with for the APM2.

Just another perspective.....but I do sympathize with you. I just don't think the answer is to hold up a release once they've gotten something that is an improvement, nor foreshadow a product that is still actively being developed and might not be ready this week or next week, or ever. If there is a significant issue discovered with APM2.5, I'd want them to release APM2.51 or whatever, as soon as it was available, and not based on an arbitrary marketing schedule. This is, after all, DIYDrones, not Acme Commercial Drones...
3D Robotics

Chris Anderson July 28, 2012 at 7:40pm

DC: I really don't know how we can do it any differently. As Jordi says in the comments earlier in this thread:

"I announce it as soon as I have the first prototype working on my desk. We are always prototyping and in many occasions we cancel the revision at the last minute, that's why I can't just say: "Hey guys right now I'm working on something please wait" to later on say "Hey guys I changed my mind, sorry for waiting for nothing".

What we have opened are pre-orders, not orders. Last time (with APM 2.0) we opened pre-orders six weeks ahead of delivery and got a hailstorm of complains about the delay. We're trying to get the balance right.

Given all this, what would you have us do differently? We already publish a long-term roadmap (for example, including APM 3.0 in Q4).
DC July 28, 2012 at 7:29pm

It's not really a heads up when the post indicates they will be shipping in a week or so and are able to be ordered now.
3D Robotics

Chris Anderson July 28, 2012 at 7:22pm

Tony: that's what this post is doing (giving people a 3-4-week heads up about the new board).
Tony Heaton July 28, 2012 at 7:18pm

It would have been nice to know that this version was coming out so soon so that we who just purchased the 2.0 could had all the information to make a decision as to purchasing the 2.0 or the 2.5. 3DR has a lot to learn about customer service!
Mike R. July 28, 2012 at 3:13pm

Chris - Thank you - PM on the way..

Jeff, lol - I'm lucky enough to have an overly understanding girlfriend that actually goes "ohhh.." and "ahhhh.." when I make odd looking things fly in the air, so I've been fortunate enough to get the green light on a number of large purchases from 3DR..
Jeff Smith July 28, 2012 at 1:14pm

@Chris, Thanks for the clarification :-) Glad to see some variety to choose from, to be honest my goal has allways been to end up in C+ anyway, seemed good to learn it parallel to Arduino.

Guess I'll be saving up for a THIRD 3DR purchase over the $400 mark :-0

Better start giving the wife foot massages now LOL!
3D Robotics

Chris Anderson July 28, 2012 at 11:41am

Jeff: PX4 and APM 3.0 will be aimed at different markets. Although the intention is that they both run the ArduCopter/Plane software in one form or another, APM is Arduino-compatible to make it easier for non-professional programmers to work with, while PX4 is aimed at research and high-end development.

At the moment, the big difference is the PX4 does not yet have full autopilot software available (it's a very powerful development platform, but not a complete autopilot solution yet).

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