Chris might pull this post down fast when he sees it!!

I am getting increasingly angry at the attitude of UNAV towards Ardupilot, most people know I don't use an Ardupilot, I'm not clever enough to put one together, but I like the project.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1030817&page=19

I will let you guys read and decide.

Views: 437

Comment by Dr Mike Black on November 29, 2009 at 2:11am
This J Suggs guy really should get his facts right, and you can see why he is biased,,,,far too obvious...

as far as ardupilot and chris are concerned, you have to use your head to use AP, it deosnt come in a pretty little box with pretty pictures on it with a USB lead marked plug and play, so the upshot is you hveto be able to read(very comprehensive manual), have a true desire to understand HOW it works so that you can make it do what you want.

There is no such thing as a free lunch, and if deos appear to be free, question the chicken!

Jabing at Chris, just isnt on.....Chris, if when you read this dont be offended :) he reminds me of my old physic proffesor, quite short and to the point, wouldnt tolerate stupidity, even came across as kirt, but if you looked you could see a rye smile, but VERY clever, wanted all us thickies to understand, and genuinly cared about his passion and teh poeple he was teaching.. You could not run a site like this if you didnt care.

Also Unav...lol.....tested that along with a number of others for a mil project, when the tests were complete, $3000 was not an acceptable figure given its abilities, for us anyway, for that money Proverus won hands down....Unav should have been about ubout $300, given the parts used, and the complexity.

This is not being said because i fly an ardupilot, but because these AP`s were tested by our team, and failed purely on its cost and workability for the application at hand.

just sounds like sour grapes on RCgroups. And the guy was simply rude....
Comment by Sarel P. Wagner on November 29, 2009 at 2:54am
Doc, now this is a valued option from an expert, well put. Firstly you need a valid unbiased (sic) perspective before you can start evaluating systems like AP's. Mr. Suggs may need to re-adjust his perceptions and biases....
Comment by Dr Mike Black on November 29, 2009 at 3:26am
Thanks Sarel,

I just hate the whole, my toys better than yours!! thing, no product has everything, only what it can do for your application. In honesty, for small UAV`s Procerus rocked, easy to use, adn very friendly...
Personally i would have loved to play with a global hawk, but you cant put that in your backpack and use it in the field with only 2 guys, hence its not perfect solution for the guy with bullets over his head, trying to find out whats over the next hill. Horses for courses.

Also its the arrogance and ignorance of mis-informed poeple that costs lives and reputations, he had no right to slate Chris. Moreover if he deos have something to say, it should have been said in private to Chris, if hte occasion did not present itself, you bite your tongue.

just my 2p`s worth
Comment by Curt Olson on November 29, 2009 at 7:31am
I should stay out of this, but let me make a couple observations ...

1. The ardupilot is not shrink-wrapped plug-n-play like many commercial autopilots. You get your board from sparkfun, and have to solder connectors on yourself. That's a barrier for many people right there.

2. In addition, it doesn't come with any of the software loaded. The end user needs to download the compiler/dev environment, setup the project for their aircraft, compile, and upload the firmware to the board. A lot of people can solder but don't know a hoot about software, and visa versa. Many people are sharp and can read a manual, but I would say that for most people, they will have to spend some significant time cultivating and developing some new skills to get an ardupilot flying.

This isn't necessarily a criticism, just an observation of fact. Learning and pushing your personal limits is always a good thing. For your $25 ardupilot, you get a do-it-yourself kit, and after all, this is DIY-drones.com

3. Another observation is that Chris is rightly proud of his accomplishments in the hobby UAV field. I can't point to a specific reference off the top of my head, but on a couple occasions I have gotten the impression that he is not shy to point out that the $25 ardupilot exceeds the capabilities of the UNAV. (And I'm being lax with my use of a $25 number because the true cost by the time you are up and flying is going to be quite a bit more.) So Chris is not devoid of all ego, and has said a few things over the years that could be taken as shots over the bow from the perspective of the "other" side. (Not to mention a lot of things that have been said by many other people that have not been positive, and don't always seem 100% well informed.)

4. I have absolutely zero contact with unav other than what I see on the forums, but definitely I have to agree that unav and their supporters do themselves no favors by engaging in flame wars and negative posts. It sure turns me off from their company, even if it's not their employees that are directly posting negative things.

5. It's clear than no one here knows everything about the UAV field, but I see quite a few posts where the authors perhaps over-reach a tiny bit in their assumptions and conclusions. There is plenty of imperfection to spread around so that everyone gets their fair share. :-)

6. All that said, it's been fun to watch the hobby uav world grow, and see so many others learn and gain experience and do new and exciting things for less and less money ... and it's exciting to be a fellow traveler on the journey.

7. DIYdrones sucks because it only gives me a 5 line high scroll box to type my messages into!!!!!

Curt.

Moderator
Comment by Brian on November 29, 2009 at 8:03am
Three Words:
Open Source, Do It Yourself

Ok 5, so what! How can anyone compare the overall success of a DIY project to the success rate of comercial products? I've mostly lurked here for a long time. I found this site because the autopilot systems I was able to finde online where way out of my ability or just flat too much $$$. I seem to recall Chris posting something to the effect that the ArduPilot project was a starting point for those interested in learning about autopilot systems. A way to roll-up your sleeves and do something that would work toward your individual goal. If some "former Ardupilot owners" have moved on to commercial products it's because they got tired of the wait, try, do/do, try, wait, fix .... Good for them.

btw - 5 lines does suck!
Comment by Paul Mather on November 29, 2009 at 8:34am
I find myself getting caught up in the same mentality as what Chris and John Suggs are displaying. I've been very closely involved with the Remzibi (Poor Man's) OSD project. As new products come online I'm always interested in reading what they have to offer and how much they are charging. In my mind it's always a comparison between Remzibi's OSD and the new product and "are we better" and "are we cheaper."

The most difficult thing to do is not say anything in their thread. On two occasions I've made the mistake of posting in either our thread (for Remzibi's OSD) about the competition or in the competition's thread (for their OSD) about Remzibi's OSD....

So I hate to say it, but Chris kind of opens himself up for attacks when he posts negative things about a competing product when he himself is a vendor.
Comment by Curt Olson on November 29, 2009 at 8:52am
What I was trying to convey is that when someone from unav takes a shot at ardupilot and says that probably 90% of the boards that have sold have never managed to fly yet, that's probably a statement that is pretty close to truth, even though it smarts to get smacked upside the head with it. We can say so what, apples to oranges, this is a diy project. And all that is true, but that same logic also applies in reverse and folks in the ardupilot camp should use caution taking swipes at unav ... because it is apples to oranges, their system is designed to be shrink wrapped and perform right out of the box, etc. etc. Companies don't last too long in the market through pure charade and trickery ... and unav has been around longer than many, so they must have something going in their favor. Unfortunately too often the technical merits of potentially competing products are debated on pure emotion and at the top of our lungs (and that sure is a lot more fun) but at the end of the day it doesn't help advance the body of knowledge.
Comment by Paul Mather on November 29, 2009 at 9:15am
One cool thing to note is if you buy an ArduPilot and do nothing with it, you're out $25. If you buy a PicoPilot and do nothing with it, you're out $400-$700

Moderator
Comment by Robert Krogh (hooks) on November 29, 2009 at 12:06pm
Sounds to me that UNAV are having big problems..

If you can't beat them, join them.

I gess UNAV are not wellcome to join the club...

They will be the loser in this game, because they don't have a faithful strong community like DIY..

BTW: I like the thoughts that UNAV have paid money to Mr. Anderson for the clicks on the google ads on DIYdrones. I'll of course click on every google ads every time I see one from UNAV because I like the page so much. ;-)
Comment by Scott James on November 29, 2009 at 3:52pm
Maybe UNAV could sell Ardupilot's as well!

They could remove half of the features and sell it for $3,500 :)

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