HobbyKing Selling ArduPilot Parts

HobbyKing is now selling much cheaper versions of some 3DR products:

(*This is an update of my old post which only referred to the two products available at that time.)

The latest addition to the list is especially well-timed because the 3DR Radio Telemetry Kit is currently out-of-stock, making HK the only place to get this item at any price right now. This could bring a welcome change to the tone of the DiyDrones Twitter feed as buyers stop venting their frustration with shortages and simply buy elsewhere.

HobbyKing changing strategies?

Even as HobbyKing is adding more ArduPilot accessories, the MultiWii and MegaPirate autopilots which they were selling are now being liquidated or have already been removed from the site entirely. It is easy to imagine that this pullback is the result of the rather infamous support nightmare they suffered when the entire run of MegaPirate boards shipped with an unworkable voltage regulator installed.

This shift in autopilot lineup could mean that HobbyKing has decided to get out of the autopilot business, sticking with accessories and staying away from complicated autopilots which have so many parts that can fail. A more likely explanation is that HobbyKing just wants an autopilot solution that works, and they're clearing the shelves to make room for something else, maybe ArduPilot, but probably DJI.

Personally, I like to imagine that somebody at HobbyKing is a rabid ArduPilot fan who clones a different 3DR part every time 3DR goes out of stock, just to make sure he can always get his fix.

Your ideas?

Last time I posted on this topic, I was expecting a rather dry discussion of the effect of clone manufacturing on the 3DR business model. That suggestion was rightly ignored, so this time I'll just ask: Do you plan to buy any clone hardware yourself?

For myself, I think my next purchase will be a 3DR PX4 with HobbyKing's telemetry and GPS. Frankly, buying the autopilot feels like enough of a donation to the developers without paying double for the accessories, as well.

Interesting discussion. I think some people here have a misguided sense of what open source is. All the products, software and hardware are results of open source collaboration. As such the designs are supposed to be shared by everyone. So there is not such thing as a "clone" of APM hardware.

The fact is that Chinese companies are very good at mass producing hardware, and they help us hobbyists get hardware to play with at a very reasonable price. The majority of Arduino boards out there are manufactured by Chinese companies. If it was left up to "authorized dealers", the Arduino phenomenon would never really have taken off. As a basic 328P based Uno would probably cost over $100.

I don't agree with the assessment that the Chinese are unethical, and send out broken product to try to trick us. I buy stuff from Chinese companies on ebay, and hobbyking all the time. Whenever there has been problems, I either get a refund or replacement product. As a former supply chain PM, I am well aware of the problems of products getting out to the public with defects. The reality is that when you sell a $60 controller for very low margins, unlike expensive cars, there just isn't a good way to issue recalls. The best you can do is issue a refund , replacement or instruct the users on how to bypass it.

One has to make a choice, do we want expensive customer service management systems or do we want cheap hardware for hobbyists to play with, and sometimes need to tweak? Since I am more technically oriented, and don't mind tweaking, I prefer the latter, so I can get equipment to play with. Others who are not so technically oriented may choose the former.

However that we need to keep in mind that what we are doing here is bleeding edge stuff, and may not be suitable for the regular consumer, who just wants a toy to fly around with. I recommend they buy a small toy helicopter for $60, also made in China, and avoid the pain.

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Comments

AVS January 25, 2013 at 1:34pm

Hi Nathaniel, as requested I am reporting back after testing the board. It works very well, provides a 5v feed where expected and seems very well made. HobbyKing rocks :)
Developer

Jani Hirvinen January 14, 2013 at 10:21pm

Rather expensive box on GLB.. Maybe they finally realized that they cannot sell stuff so cheap :)
RH1N0 January 14, 2013 at 12:29am

http://www.goodluckbuy.com/protective-case-cover-for-apm-2-5-flight...
Ellison Chan January 10, 2013 at 10:34am

Interesting discussion. I think some people here have a misguided sense of what open source is. All the products, software and hardware are results of open source collaboration. As such the designs are supposed to be shared by everyone. So there is not such thing as a "clone" of APM hardware.

The fact is that Chinese companies are very good at mass producing hardware, and they help us hobbyists get hardware to play with at a very reasonable price. The majority of Arduino boards out there are manufactured by Chinese companies. If it was left up to "authorized dealers", the Arduino phenomenon would never really have taken off. As a basic 328P based Uno would probably cost over $100.

I don't agree with the assessment that the Chinese are unethical, and send out broken product to try to trick us. I buy stuff from Chinese companies on ebay, and hobbyking all the time. Whenever there has been problems, I either get a refund or replacement product. As a former supply chain PM, I am well aware of the problems of products getting out to the public with defects. The reality is that when you sell a $60 controller for very low margins, unlike expensive cars, there just isn't a good way to issue recalls. The best you can do is issue a refund , replacement or instruct the users on how to bypass it.

One has to make a choice, do we want expensive customer service management systems or do we want cheap hardware for hobbyists to play with, and sometimes need to tweak? Since I am more technically oriented, and don't mind tweaking, I prefer the latter, so I can get equipment to play with. Others who are not so technically oriented may choose the former.

However that we need to keep in mind that what we are doing here is bleeding edge stuff, and may not be suitable for the regular consumer, who just wants a toy to fly around with. I recommend they buy a small toy helicopter for $60, also made in China, and avoid the pain.
Jonathan Price January 8, 2013 at 11:44am

Thanks, for the correction, Jani. I should not have included your company in point #2. (Although the reality actually supports the point I was trying to make, I think.)

Since you've been in this for longer than any of us, are their any more details you can provide? I'm sure the early history is fascinating.
Developer

Jani Hirvinen January 8, 2013 at 2:09am

Jonathan, just to correct. jDrones and 3DR are two totally different companies owned by different people. I am owner of jDrones, Chris/Jordi (as far as I know) are major owners of 3DR.

jDrones never located in USA continent, we have always been here in Thailand/Bangkok (and I am a Finnish person).

Yes both jDrones and 3DR are working on this main project and we are initial creators of all ArduCopter and it's related parts.
Jonathan Price January 8, 2013 at 1:44am
This thread seems to be attracting a lot of nationalist comments. I've been removing the most egregious examples since page 1. If I have culled some vitriol/commentary too slowly/quickly, I apologize.

I offer the following replies to the comments I've deleted:
1. According to several reliable sources, no human race or patch of ground has a monopoly on anything, nor is any such thing likely to be possible.
2. Jordi is based in Tijuana, and his involvement predates Chris', so jDrones/DiyDrones/3DR is technically a Mexican company that moved to the US.
3. Tijuana is a great place to go to find engineering talent. A first-rate engineering education is remarkably inexpensive there, so there are a lot of trained engineers of all flavors to choose from.
4. Few companies, American or otherwise, like to ship to foreign destinations because there is rarely any effective legal recourse in case of fraud. It's a matter of jurisdiction, not jingoism.
AVS January 7, 2013 at 5:18pm

Hi Nathaniel, I've left stuff on back order before knowing I could cancel and take a credit at anytime. BUT only stuff I don't care about getting in a reasonable time frame :)

I feel that most hk horror stories are either surprise at getting a credit instead of money back (if you cancel an order) or costs of sending stuff back. I know many other suppliers don't allow orders to be cancelled but without that knowledge some people will feel "hard done by". Same with the costs of sending stuff back. Every supplier works that way, however it is up to us if we register post the return at extra cost to us or not.

Like yourself, I have bought a lot of kit over the years. Failure rate has been close to zero.

T
Moderator

Nathaniel Caner January 7, 2013 at 5:04pm

Tim,

I've ordered quite a few things from HK too, and although I've not had a bad experience myself so far. I've read some horror stories that make me wary. I've had friends who have bought the same batteries I do from HK and they've had them arrive D.O.A. only to be told that they could return them (to China) if they paid the return postage which was more than the cost of the batteries. Personally I don't buy the batteries from the international warehouse; I think the cost difference isn't worth it when you have to add on the high international postage. I've also learned not to order anything on back-order. I don't have a high degree of confidence in their quality control based on what I've read not on personal experience. Hopefully this will change with time.

Regards,

Nathaniel ~KD2DEY
AVS January 7, 2013 at 4:54pm

Hi Nathaniel, will do but I think their returns system will be to get a returns number, send it back, get a free replacement or take a credit. It's going to be interesting, I have ordered plenty of other bits from the before (as a result of posts by Chris) such as batteries, ARTF planes, esc, motors. They have been okay so far.

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