Kevin Finisterre, DIYDroneSafety and Drone Savant persona

forum PM: "Just know that the 'imaginary' group you represent isn't so imaginary at all. But I guess you already know that" - silent DIYDrones user

This topic was setup in order to move degenerative conversation points away from the "Hex decided to leave and never come back" thread to a more appropriate location.

The original post wording stated that it "should be used as a sounding board to discredit the abrasive  comments made by myself and others that operate the DIYDroneSafety website, twitter feed, and the Drone Savant forum persona. Either take it off list or put it here... It appears as if we need a special topic to discuss WHY some people feel the need to be abrasive around here in order to get critical safety issues fixed. Some claim slander, damage, abusive behavior, libel etc., while others claim simply claim awareness and safety from half truths and lies by omission..."

^--- This was simply a conversation starter which had wonderful results.  Discussing the "need to be abrasive" really was not the point. This comment nails the actual point

I think there are specific and real issues, which Kevin is raising.  Most of his complaints about the code are at least valid, even if not easily solved.  His complaints about the documentation are also valid, and are easily solved.

Traditionally the following topics have produced some contention amongst the ranks of developers, moderators and end users. As such user understanding, vs. documentation, vs. code has been confusing at best and at times unsafe: 

PPM Encoder

Watchdog functionality for code lockup situations

Powering the APM with cheap ESC's via input rail (brownout problems)

These topics are *NOW* being actively investigated in a variety of forms and are producing valuable information. 

Safety Watchdog -

Watch dog added to shutdown motors if main loop feezes for 2 seconds (Randy) - 

Brownouts -

We're going to be shipping a stand-alone power supply (and voltage/current sensor) that will ensure that brownouts never happen. Hopefully in a few weeks. 

PPM Encoder logic explained -

With the discovery that the Turnigy 9x radios using original receivers and firmware, would act in a non-standard way and completely drop the throttle signal during fail-safe (same effect as a broken wire). The detection of single channel loss became a real problem, and a patch was made to detect single channel loss (throttle only) at the expense of some jitter and stick resolution.

New Original Paparazzi & APM PPM (servo2ppm?) logic flaw brought to light

Olivier found and documented some very real and very serious problems with the original Paparazzi PPM Encoder used by APM 1.x. What Olivier found and proved by extensive testing, was that that PWM channel sequences from certain R/C receivers would confuse the Paparazzi PPM Encoder. Resulting in the throttle channel (among others) locking up.

Hats off to developers like R_Lefebvre and people Monroe for stepping up (even if begrudgingly in Monroe's case) to help get to the bottom of these potentially serious safety issues -

When you are "The largest amateur Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) community", it doesn't matter what everyone else is doing. "Well they have flyways too" aren't the words of someone leading the head of the pack. Well can do better and deserve it. 

Stay Vigilant. 

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Replies to This Discussion

Exactly how many people are using the    "Drone Savant" User name/ Account? I know there are 2, but perhaps there are more.

I could see this if there was a customer support user name for a particular company, but that is not  the case.

I've been busy on another project and finally decided to check in with DIYdrones... And this is what I find!

I'm not sure why this thread exists, or why it is the "Top Content" on the site.  I certainly don't have time to sort it all out.

But I will say this, Chris and the other management on this site have shown that they support free speech at about 70-90%, depending on the day of the week.  That is to say that they are not perfect, but pretty lenient all things considered, with the site/store being what it is.

So the users that constantly gripe and complain and cry and troll and flame Kevin (Drone Savant) REALLY need to quit!

If you have a logical and reasoned argument against something he's posted, then post it!  If you think some argument is repetitive then state your argument and in the future just respond with a simple link to your "position paper" on the subject.

It's really not that hard to deal with people you disagree with when you act like an adult.

From what I've seen, Kevin makes many valid points and has contributed a lot to the site.  It seems to me that most of the time he's responded to with asinine drivel from people who have past beefs with him.  Then when he responds the diehard fanclub piles on with their crap posts.  Then some big babys try to make the whole thing an issue with moderation.

My advice is to quit turning everything into such an argument and then crying about it!  If your argument holds any water at all then a simple post saying you've discussed the issue before, along with a link to the previous thread or a webpage with your response, will win the argument far better than all this crying and griping.

In the interest of improving things here I'm extending an open invitation to anyone who would like to have a webpage containing all their gripes and arguments.  I'll provide you a nice short link where you can post anything you want, excluding hardcore pornography (send that directly to me) and copyrighted material.  No other rules whatsoever!  You can then post than link whenever you encounter something here that is best addressed with a stump speech, or argument that needs to be supported with a full web page.

There should be no excuses now.  If someone posts something that doesn't dignify a response, then don't dignify them with a response.  State that you object and point them to your page containing your well reasoned argument against them.  It will save you the typing and I'll also be happy to help get your info online.

Interesting... I was wondering why it was back up top.

Well, let's try talking about something constructive for a change.

I had some free time and had a look at the ArduPPM and single channel fail-safe detection. I am not promising anything right now since I haven't finished testing jitter. But I think I found an acceptable compromise that will allow single channel detection on all channels and still maintain good general performance with regard to jitter and stick resolution. Trick was to migrate most of the fail-safe detection to the more timing deterministic PPM output generator, instead of doing it all in the PPM input interrupt.

Without a scope picture from the PPM signal it is hard to say what is going on, but if you are using a PPM sum signal there is no decoding/encoding being done in the ArduPPM. The ppm stream is just re-transmitted as-is faulty or not "PPM pass-trough" to the main chip.

Quick question for DS.... How many people use the Drone Savant handle?

Drone Savant, Nothing good ever comes from posting PM's on a public Forum. Whether it be from me, or whoever. That is why deleted ALL of the parts of the PM that were posted, even mine. What's said in private is private. End of story.

"Reply by John Arne Birkeland on October 23, 2012 at 8:25am

This is going to be my first and only post in this thread,....."

I agree with DS on this.  If someone is treating a person differently in private then they are in public then the rest of the forum needs to know.  That type of behavior shows a character flaw.  Unfortunately, this type of behavior is widespread, not just in this forum.

Now hang on a second here...

I'm not sure if you're deliberately attempting to confuse issues here, but you definitely are doing it.

The PM that you posted from me had nothing to do with me provoking you.  It was the contrary in fact, I was trying to placate you.  I don't know if at the time other people were provoking you in private, but it was not their PM that you posted.

Oh don't start on that.  John's contribution here are extremely educational.


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