Posted by Felix Borges on January 20, 2015 at 10:26pm
I am considering building my first y6 copter. I am in the process of making my list of items to get. Do you guys have advice on how to start. What parts are the good and what issues to look out for.
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I am still confused. Right now there is no need to worry about me installing anything wrong because it will be a while before I can get all the part to even start spinning the motors. But to clarify. Lets say every motor is right side up obviously the propellers on the motors that will stay right side up will go on normally, but the props that go on the motors that will eventually be on the bottom. Those props go on the motors upside down. You want the lift of the props to always be towards the sky. Hence the propellers need to go on upside down so when you flip the motors they will be flying the right way. Or am I not really understanding it?
Doug Walmsley > Felix BorgesJanuary 28, 2015 at 6:15am
Simple answer for props... Thrust downward always. Note the pitch near the hub to determine direction of thrust and propeller rotation.
DG is correct that the propeller label is facing upward for props that are marked. I have many Carbon Fiber props that have no markings.
How do you think the 3DR 850 motors would work on that frame Felix has seeing how light it is? I'm thinking swapping out the Y6B motors, get a clone APM kit, run on 3s and it would be a nice flyer.
I think either the 980 or 850 kv motors will work. The question really is, what size props.
Based on what I read thus far, I think 10 inch will be too much propeller for such a light weight frame.
If he's trying for speed, maybe 8 or 9 inch would be sufficient.
With 10 inch I feel he will have too much power if not loading it with extra weight such as a gimbal and camera. 10 inch will not improve flight performance times unless flying with minimal power and hovering.
I would go to eCalc and compare data for this setup. And yes I know the Coaxial parameters lie somewhat. What you can get is a general feeling of what will and won't work as I did to determine my setup and prop configuration.
As far as you asking about your idea of setting up a flyer... Hmmm... I think if you're looking for a FPV fun flyer, this design has potential. You could use a Micro VR Brain, KK, or something similar to these but supports Arducopter firmware. Batteries will be important. I think you'll be fine with a 3S but would recommend staying around 3500-4000 mAh max for weight reasons.
Off subject. You could attach one of these or this to the flyer if you're interested. I'm thinking of test either of these on a frame I'm waiting on to be developed from Trearig as a fun/fpv flyer.
It's best to visualize which props go where after the motors are installed, but let's try this explanation so you get the motors rotating correctly after they are installed.
The lettering on the prop will always face upward whether they be mounted on the bottom or the top motor. Maybe that helps? Your props are labeled R & L. R would be CW. L would be CCW.
AFTER installation, the top motors that spin CW, use the R prop, lettering up. For the bottom motors that spin CW, same thing, R prop lettering facing up, but are technically mounted "upside down" if you had them on the bench with the shafts pointed up.
Remember, all motor rotations after installing are as viewed when looking down at the copter sitting in it's normal legs down position.
Here's how to make sure the motors spinning in the correct rotation before installing on the copter:
1) place all motors with the shaft pointed up.
2) Top motors that spin CW when installed will spin CW with the shaft pointed up
3) Bottom motors that spin CW when installed will spin CCW with the shaft pointed up
4) Top motors that spin CCW when installed will spin CCW with the shaft pointed up
5) Bottom motors that spin CCW when installed will spin CW with the shaft pointed up.
R props go on all CW rotating motors AFTER the motors are installed with the lettering pointed up.
L props go on all CCW rotating motors AFTER the motors are installed with the lettering pointed up.
There's a reason why I'm not a teacher, so hopefully you aren't too confused :)
The Y6B frame is actually quite a good frame for $65. A problem is it only accepts a 12" prop IIRC, and that's pushing it.
Vulcan makes excellent frames, but are quite large and are about 5x the cost.
A middle ground Y6 might be the RCTimer Trooper Y6. It is far less than a Sky Hero Spy, probably not as high quality, but doesn't break the bank. A con, like the Spy, is the frame is a bit on the heavy side.
To be honest, unless you're wanting to do it from scratch for the life experience, buying an ARF or kit may a better value, especially from a reputable company. They spent the R&D to come up with the best combination.
My modified 3DR Y6B can support up to 13 x4.7" propellers and that's pushing the limits. If you can obtain longer arms, you could jump up to larger propellers.
NOTE: Determine your flying time and lift capacity before purchasing a frame and the ESC and Motors.
One thing I learned the hard way is that you can't just stick any old prop on a motor and expect great results. I started with 850 Kv motors and realized jumping from 10 inch props to 12 or 13 inch props had a negative effect on batteries and heating issues with ESCs and motors.
I would recommend eCalc to get a general idea which motor/ESC and propeller setup you may want and then determine what frame can support it requirements.
If you want simple and not worry about upgrading too much, I think 3DR's Y6 setup is a good design although I feel it falls short of being the best design for a number of reasons starting with aesthetics to flight endurance.
So I agree with DG's post from yesterday that an ARF kit is probably the best starting point for noobies.
See this post for talks on what I did to my frame if you're interested.
Felix Borges > Doug WalmsleyJanuary 23, 2015 at 10:00am
So that is some good knowledge to have. Unfortunately I made a noobie mistake. I already bought my frame. The titan y6 with 16in booms. Also I bought sunnysky 2212-13 980kv II motors six of them. I knew my frame weighed around 950 g and with the little knowledge I know I decided on these motors. Hopefully I haven't made costly errors.
Felix Borges > Felix BorgesJanuary 23, 2015 at 12:09pm
I also decided on the kk2.1.5 LCD fc. I know I am going about this in a backward type of way. I really have no idea and little guidance. Hopefully I can build something that I can put in the air. I'm also thinking of buying 10x4.5 props.
Replies
I am still confused. Right now there is no need to worry about me installing anything wrong because it will be a while before I can get all the part to even start spinning the motors. But to clarify. Lets say every motor is right side up obviously the propellers on the motors that will stay right side up will go on normally, but the props that go on the motors that will eventually be on the bottom. Those props go on the motors upside down. You want the lift of the props to always be towards the sky. Hence the propellers need to go on upside down so when you flip the motors they will be flying the right way. Or am I not really understanding it?
Simple answer for props... Thrust downward always. Note the pitch near the hub to determine direction of thrust and propeller rotation.
DG is correct that the propeller label is facing upward for props that are marked. I have many Carbon Fiber props that have no markings.
Doug,
How do you think the 3DR 850 motors would work on that frame Felix has seeing how light it is? I'm thinking swapping out the Y6B motors, get a clone APM kit, run on 3s and it would be a nice flyer.
Hmm.
I think either the 980 or 850 kv motors will work. The question really is, what size props.
Based on what I read thus far, I think 10 inch will be too much propeller for such a light weight frame.
If he's trying for speed, maybe 8 or 9 inch would be sufficient.
With 10 inch I feel he will have too much power if not loading it with extra weight such as a gimbal and camera. 10 inch will not improve flight performance times unless flying with minimal power and hovering.
I would go to eCalc and compare data for this setup. And yes I know the Coaxial parameters lie somewhat. What you can get is a general feeling of what will and won't work as I did to determine my setup and prop configuration.
As far as you asking about your idea of setting up a flyer... Hmmm... I think if you're looking for a FPV fun flyer, this design has potential. You could use a Micro VR Brain, KK, or something similar to these but supports Arducopter firmware. Batteries will be important. I think you'll be fine with a 3S but would recommend staying around 3500-4000 mAh max for weight reasons.
Off subject. You could attach one of these or this to the flyer if you're interested. I'm thinking of test either of these on a frame I'm waiting on to be developed from Trearig as a fun/fpv flyer.
At some point the light will come on after he's replaced a few broken props :) Kind of like learning to ride a bike.
It's best to visualize which props go where after the motors are installed, but let's try this explanation so you get the motors rotating correctly after they are installed.
The lettering on the prop will always face upward whether they be mounted on the bottom or the top motor. Maybe that helps? Your props are labeled R & L. R would be CW. L would be CCW.
AFTER installation, the top motors that spin CW, use the R prop, lettering up. For the bottom motors that spin CW, same thing, R prop lettering facing up, but are technically mounted "upside down" if you had them on the bench with the shafts pointed up.
Remember, all motor rotations after installing are as viewed when looking down at the copter sitting in it's normal legs down position.
Here's how to make sure the motors spinning in the correct rotation before installing on the copter:
1) place all motors with the shaft pointed up.
2) Top motors that spin CW when installed will spin CW with the shaft pointed up
3) Bottom motors that spin CW when installed will spin CCW with the shaft pointed up
4) Top motors that spin CCW when installed will spin CCW with the shaft pointed up
5) Bottom motors that spin CCW when installed will spin CW with the shaft pointed up.
R props go on all CW rotating motors AFTER the motors are installed with the lettering pointed up.
L props go on all CCW rotating motors AFTER the motors are installed with the lettering pointed up.
There's a reason why I'm not a teacher, so hopefully you aren't too confused :)
The Y6B frame is actually quite a good frame for $65. A problem is it only accepts a 12" prop IIRC, and that's pushing it.
Vulcan makes excellent frames, but are quite large and are about 5x the cost.
A middle ground Y6 might be the RCTimer Trooper Y6. It is far less than a Sky Hero Spy, probably not as high quality, but doesn't break the bank. A con, like the Spy, is the frame is a bit on the heavy side.
Here's one from GLB at the budget end: http://is.gd/ApnagR
To be honest, unless you're wanting to do it from scratch for the life experience, buying an ARF or kit may a better value, especially from a reputable company. They spent the R&D to come up with the best combination.
My modified 3DR Y6B can support up to 13 x4.7" propellers and that's pushing the limits. If you can obtain longer arms, you could jump up to larger propellers.
NOTE: Determine your flying time and lift capacity before purchasing a frame and the ESC and Motors.
One thing I learned the hard way is that you can't just stick any old prop on a motor and expect great results. I started with 850 Kv motors and realized jumping from 10 inch props to 12 or 13 inch props had a negative effect on batteries and heating issues with ESCs and motors.
I would recommend eCalc to get a general idea which motor/ESC and propeller setup you may want and then determine what frame can support it requirements.
If you want simple and not worry about upgrading too much, I think 3DR's Y6 setup is a good design although I feel it falls short of being the best design for a number of reasons starting with aesthetics to flight endurance.
So I agree with DG's post from yesterday that an ARF kit is probably the best starting point for noobies.
See this post for talks on what I did to my frame if you're interested.
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