Hi all Looking to replace my Pixhawk that died when an ESC went into meltdown and dumped batter voltage up the signal wire and just cannot afford the cost of the genuine items so was looking to the Chinese clones, I then stumbled across these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331784307248 and at under £50 quite a bit cheaper than the usual Chinese clones, but was concerned by the reference in the description to German & Russian firmware. Anyone know anything about these, are they fully compatible with Pixhawk and Mission Planer and the normal APM firmware normally used. I know you get what you pay for and if you buy cheap you buy twice, but I need to get something to replace my smoked Pixhawk and just cannot justify the cost of the genuine item at the moment. Thanks for any help with this Paul | |
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Somewhere in these 1000's of pages and threads is a discussion about how to tune those radios for much better performance... wish I had the link for ya.
Worth mentioning: this was always the idea behind the open source model. A third party makes the hardware and the software remains in everyone's hands.
What about a unit like this? What is it missing compared to a full PH unit?
PX4 Lite (link)
Just I/O that you may or may not need. Pixhawk as a lot of I/O ports and most people do not use them all. I do not think that one is one of the better versions of slimmed down Pixhawks though even if it is cheap.
If you want a cutting edge PX4 small board with newest sensors I would try and snag a Pixracer from Arsov. That is actually the newest official PX4 board.
I think the Pixfalcon is a quality product if you do not use the Aux inputs on an Pixhawk.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__86437__PixFalcon_Micro_P...
You failed to mention the clones continued using outdated and/or defective hardware that 3DR identified, then pulled all Pixhawks off the market and fixed. Pixhack for example still has the 1mb flash limit. The RTFQ's of the world kept on crashing and wondering why their copters wouldn't work right.
3DR continued to replace Pixhawks long after the warranty period for the faulty boards THEY discovered and reported the problem.
It wasn't HobbyKing or any other big box store that spent the time and money finding and correcting these issues.
Also, as I have the AUAV-X2 which had the USB bug that caused my first and only flyaway (posted here at DIY), it was 3DR that fixed the problem via firmware. The open design of the X2 is plagued with holding altitude and must be encased well (no case sold with unit). While I like the smaller size, connecting everything can keeping wiring organized is a nightmare. Why did they stop making it?
And what good is having a new product (Pixracer) if they are near impossible to purchase and then wait 2 weeks for delivery? I can order a Pixhawk and have it in a few days. I'm not into racing quads, so it really doesn't appeal to me.
I also have a Pixhack with the aforementioned outdated hardware. While it is a nice solid design, the vibration damping is largely a gimmick. Maybe the latest versions work better, but mine still required using latex foam to get vibrations very low. There is no U.S. source for support so waiting weeks on end for replacement after trying to break the language barrier ping pong back and forth emails is not my idea of fun.
The other two FC's are genuine Pixhawks, neither of which has failed, although one has the 1mb flash limit; not a big deal for this year anyway.
Having worked in the manufacturing field for 35+ years, I've seen it all. For the past 20 years I've worked at a company that designs and builds turnkey assembly and test systems for the automotive industry, specifically mostly engines and transmissions. We have a spare parts division that supplies the customers with perishable parts and sub-assemblies. Retrofitting is in constant flux. Some customers decided it was cheaper to deal directly with the manufacturers of the details, bypassing us. Yep, they got the parts cheaper, but also an unacceptable rejection rate which could virtually shut down an assembly line. The difference is we 100% inspect and test all components before shipping to the plant, plus since we actually designed the systems we know how the details et al work and fit to the mating details. We've not had one single detail rejected back due to a defect in the manufacturing. That's 20 years of fighting the bean counters and mfg to get where we're at now. We have the highest profit margin in the company because of it, and customers have come back after much frustration with the "cheap" stuff.
I run the inspection department and set up the system that earned the spare parts division and final inspection department the reputation they so deserve. Am I bragging? Nope. I just knew from experience going for the cheapest price usually results in getting what you pay for. Therefore, except for $50 drones I play with in the yard, I will always go for the higher quality parts, which almost always translates into higher prices.
Everyone wants to save a buck, but flight controllers are like a box of chocolates. When 3DR says they are on top of an issue, they have always come through in my experience. Therefore I am looking forward to seeing what improvements will be made to Pixhawk.
Er yes. I do not see your point entirely. 3DR no longer make their version of Pixhawk although I guess they may still have some stock. I think you need to adjust to that new reality. I have no idea what you think I failed to mention when I fairly specifically said you take a risk when you but a sub $100 Pixhawk on ebay.
The 1MB flash limit was a chip manufacturers fault that applied to Pixhawks made by 3DR as much as anyone else and it is not likely to be an issue through even the next release. It should not really concern anyone even if they are still being sold in cheaper units which will likely be fine for another 2 years, which is a long time in flight controllers.
I have 3 X2s and they work really well but they do need a case, obviously. Very good printed ones exist for $15. It is a quality product by any standard and properly tested and extremely well made. Arsov are a boutique operation that only make small batches. Any new design can have an issue. The USB issue was fixed pretty quickly in firmware. I am sure they do not make them now as there is a plethora of mini Pixhawks for well under $100 and there were none when it was introduced.
And since you know about the business I really do not see why it is hard for you to understand that a small-scale manufacturer cannot do an injection molded case. Why so hard on Arsov? They are now funding developers and bringing to market the next generation of PX4 hardware. So what if you have to wait (as I am). It is a privilege to have companies like this brining all-new designs into the project.
The fact that no US companies want to step into 3DRs space and provide a full range of peripherals speaks volumes of the economic model behind Open Source hardware. I think the hardware used in this project should probably not have any GPL restrictions and the designs should be proprietary and that might give incentive for more people to be in this space and be able to make a margin. They hardware standards should be put in the public domain it needs to adhere to the pin configurations in order for the firmware to work.
For myself I use Virtual Robotix, Arsov, and Drotek (only one of those is half American). I think Drotek (a French company) is the best option for a full range of Pixhawk-class FCs and peripherals.
But most hobbyists should feel ok about dropping $95 on an HKPilot32. It is a mature design and seems to have a pretty good reputation with users.
Marc Dornan,
Are you and DG the same person?
3DR never did actually manufacture their own Pixhawk AFAIK. They are not an electronics manufacturer. What they did do however is test them and maintain a program to control the process as a preventive measure to better assure a higher quality product at the consumer end. It wasn't perfect, but then very few are. Again, it was 3DR that did all the legwork in resolving hardware issues, Not HK, not RTFQ, none of them spent a dime. They just pump out widgets and nobody knows if any QC goes into the final product. HK is still selling the HKPilot with 1mb flash limit. There are light bulbs and there are light bulbs, but not all light bulbs are created equal.
Companies like Steadidrone only use genuine 3DR Pixhawks in their vehicles. I've yet to see a high quality RTF system offer a clone Pixhawk. They don't use $30 motors, $10 ESC's, $30 GPS's (yep I have one of them on a test quad).....there's a reason for that.
I'm not criticizing Arsov, only that they cannot mass produce anything. I don't care to wait several weeks/months to receive a FC only to find out it is defective and need to wait several more weeks for a replacement. That is what happened with my first purchase of the X2 and is not a good business model IMO no matter how innovative the product is. Not having a case didn't bother me because someone finally offered a decent design.
How can anyone expect to stay in business with notices like this?
Look at the delays and issues for Solo (I've had two of them) both for software and hardware. It really hurt the brand I think. Marketing won the battle but may have lost the war.
For me however all this is a mute point considering the hammer that is coming down on the hobby. I am not registered and will not consider doing so unless the courts determine FAA is within their jurisdiction to ignore federal statutes and make up laws as they go along. At that point I may simply quit altogether. It's pretty clear the government is moving toward securing the NAS for commercial enterprises and in my estimation will make it so restrictive to fly these things all the fun will be taken out of it.
Where we've been flying for 37 years is now, according to FAA, a safety hazard. Utter nonsense. All are uncontrolled grass fields (all but one are non-functional and that one is used a few times a year for my friend's ultralight). And with noflyzone.org being integrated with Yuneec firmware, it's only a matter of time before they are all required to implement it and that will effectively kill the hobby, not withstanding the AMA's grandstanding. For some reason I don't think Dronecode is out for the interests of the hobbyist.
Arsov are a cottage industry fueled by passion. Their inability to commit to bigger batches really speaks to how their model can be brutally undercut by Asian clone shops. I still am very happy to support them.
Do not lose heart though. I think this is a bit phase we are going through. Hopefully the consumer interest in this will wane and hobbyists can get back to what they enjoy. But for someone with your long perspective it will likely never be so easy to just go and fly as it once was.
+1
I would like to pay my part to this. Donating isn't enough here.
This brilliant eco system should not come into danger while cloners do zero contribution to it (means giving in some way money to the core team).
Yes just the right point in time to think about it.
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