According to Randy the know issue of altitude loss after a high speed run is at its heart a frame issue.This seems to me a very worthwhile discussion to have.Once the majority of us understand this, we will be less likely to muck up other threads.Take it away Randy...
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Artem > Richard KennedyJanuary 13, 2016 at 10:33pm
Nope, GPS alt is really imprecise.... Mybe yes maybe no, I just know that even without gps naza alt hold works very well, its called attitude mode. I believe they rely much more on accelerometers and gyros filtering out regular vibrations very well.... I just know that I never had to worry much about balancing props with naza to fly well, only for good videos.
I think we are fundamentally wrong in the idea that solution to the alt hold problem is mechanical. I've just stripped a naza lite with v2 firmware off its casing and used a piece of tape to secure foam over baro, guess what copter flies in a straight line just like with its case on! We gotta think outside the box with this... There is obviously a software solution to this problem.
I finally have *something* to report. I don't yet have flight logs that are worth anything, but I can report that it appears that my current mod is rather inconsistent in performance. While early, non-scientific tests, and early flights looked promising, I can't consistently produce good Alt. Hold performance. I'm going to try some other locations for the inlet and see how that goes.
In other news, I did get some simulation results from the Gill inlet model. The first round was not perfect, but really close. You can see in the pics that the pressure is close to neutral and the velocity is very low at the inlet's center port. I made a couple of tweaks to the model based on educated guesses, and I'll see about getting one or more 3D printed on SLS, with glass-filled nylon. The small geometry and aerodynamic requirements of this part make it a poor candidate for FDM, so it will be a bit more expensive.
I have just been out testing a rig that is sealed. It is actually at positive pressure as there is a powerful fan sucking air in. the air intake is higher then the venting.
It dawned on me just now. It held altitude well!
Is the Barometer that sensitive it can still distinguish a change in altitude even when under high pressure.
not sure what the PSI is but it blows the lid off when you undo the catches.
wow that's very interesting. Could you provide a picture of your set up? What did you use for the fan? I have a feeling the size of that opening / fan and it's location is the key. Did you try the same set up with the fan off to compare? Thx
I have sort of the same problem on my own boards (used in turbine powered modelplanes). I have a MS5611 on a board, and sometimes I see altitude drop because of pressure buildup inside the airframe (depends on the type of plane etc). I had a friend design a "small thing" that fits over the MS5611/5607 and also MPL3115 so it is easy to attach a 3mm Festo tubing (to "Y" connect it to the static line from the Pitot)
Maybe someone can use the design, included stl file in the zip file so you can have your own made
Another solution for the community would be a stand alone baro in a specially designed case (or built into the GPS/compass unit) which is then attached to the Pixhawk using an I2C or SPI cable.
Ardupilot already supports an external baro we just haven't documented it so few have tried.
I thought I had seen a reference to something like that. External baro would be trey cool.
Chris Hardwick > Chris HardwickJanuary 6, 2016 at 2:59pm
I have yet to prove how well my implementation actually works. CFD on the Gill inlet is coming along. Many irons in the fire right now. None of them getting hot very fast.
BTW - I'm really liking this dialog. Lots of good ideas and solutions.
Replies
Nope, GPS alt is really imprecise.... Mybe yes maybe no, I just know that even without gps naza alt hold works very well, its called attitude mode. I believe they rely much more on accelerometers and gyros filtering out regular vibrations very well.... I just know that I never had to worry much about balancing props with naza to fly well, only for good videos.
I think we are fundamentally wrong in the idea that solution to the alt hold problem is mechanical. I've just stripped a naza lite with v2 firmware off its casing and used a piece of tape to secure foam over baro, guess what copter flies in a straight line just like with its case on! We gotta think outside the box with this... There is obviously a software solution to this problem.
I finally have *something* to report. I don't yet have flight logs that are worth anything, but I can report that it appears that my current mod is rather inconsistent in performance. While early, non-scientific tests, and early flights looked promising, I can't consistently produce good Alt. Hold performance. I'm going to try some other locations for the inlet and see how that goes.
In other news, I did get some simulation results from the Gill inlet model. The first round was not perfect, but really close. You can see in the pics that the pressure is close to neutral and the velocity is very low at the inlet's center port. I made a couple of tweaks to the model based on educated guesses, and I'll see about getting one or more 3D printed on SLS, with glass-filled nylon. The small geometry and aerodynamic requirements of this part make it a poor candidate for FDM, so it will be a bit more expensive.
Pressure Plot.png
Veolcity Plot.png
Velocity Vectors.png
OK here is one for you.
I have just been out testing a rig that is sealed. It is actually at positive pressure as there is a powerful fan sucking air in. the air intake is higher then the venting.
It dawned on me just now. It held altitude well!
Is the Barometer that sensitive it can still distinguish a change in altitude even when under high pressure.
not sure what the PSI is but it blows the lid off when you undo the catches.
wow that's very interesting. Could you provide a picture of your set up? What did you use for the fan? I have a feeling the size of that opening / fan and it's location is the key. Did you try the same set up with the fan off to compare? Thx
I have sort of the same problem on my own boards (used in turbine powered modelplanes). I have a MS5611 on a board, and sometimes I see altitude drop because of pressure buildup inside the airframe (depends on the type of plane etc). I had a friend design a "small thing" that fits over the MS5611/5607 and also MPL3115 so it is easy to attach a 3mm Festo tubing (to "Y" connect it to the static line from the Pitot)
Maybe someone can use the design, included stl file in the zip file so you can have your own made
2016-01-07 09.39.45.jpg
AirGuide-1 (1).pdf
AirGuide-1.zip
Another solution for the community would be a stand alone baro in a specially designed case (or built into the GPS/compass unit) which is then attached to the Pixhawk using an I2C or SPI cable.
Ardupilot already supports an external baro we just haven't documented it so few have tried.
Zubax gps have baro on itself....
I thought I had seen a reference to something like that. External baro would be trey cool.
I have yet to prove how well my implementation actually works. CFD on the Gill inlet is coming along. Many irons in the fire right now. None of them getting hot very fast.
BTW - I'm really liking this dialog. Lots of good ideas and solutions.
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