Discussion group for ArduPlane users

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  • Moderator

    All very valid, interesting points. It distresses me when someone is vocal about their sense of entitlement, clearly not appreciating the organizing principles of the community.  And there are the separate roles of the core contributors, the online community, the commercial stores who, through scaling, put their resources at risk to let a wider audience participate more easily, etc.

    However, there is no place for personal attacks. Not because personal attacks cannot be tolerated, or because free speech should be censored, but because the community has a set of published standards.

    Two of the eleven "rules" cover this as explicitly as can be stated: http://diydrones.com/profiles/blog/show?id=705844:BlogPost:17789

  • Developer

    Jay - I agree with you 100%, except....

    Chris and Jordi bring a lot of this on themselves.  Sorry Chris, thats just my opinion/observation.  DIYDrones Store - AKA 3DRobotics - is a business with a business model touted at one time of simply being that they fabricate open source hardware used by the DIYDrones community.  All the hardware you can go off and fab on your own, if you wish, or some other company can build it and sell it as well.  However, they do a great job of building it and supplying it at an attractive price, so they sell lots.  The problem is that they have not maintained a separation of identity or clearly stuck to that business model.  The fact that their website/marketing looks a lot more like they are selling products that they support than that they just build open source hardware, and that they do in fact provide some level of support is the reason that some percentage of folks have the expectation that they are buying a commercial product. 

    I don't care if 3DR is simply an open source fabricator with no responsibility beyond quality assembly, or if they want to go beyond that.  The irritation and friction comes from people like Brian tossing criticism at the open source community and assuming that the open source community and 3DR are the same thing, and that happens because 3DR is not clear about communicating what their business model is.

    If you are a community member and don't like people like Bryan and his comments, ignore him.  Personally I care even less than Sgt Rick if Brian leaves the community or not.  He is certainly not my customer.  I don't have customers.  I develop autopilots for fun. 

  • Moderator

    @Jay is 100% correct!

    This community began as a group of hobbiests interested in tinkering and exploring new technologies involved in model stabilization and auto-pilots. 

    Soon several persons decided to get together and purchase parts in bulk and offer these to the community.

    It seems this has grown to the point where people are expecting more and more from those few running the "store".

    They expect someone to hold their hand and do evcerything for them, or they expect hourly updates on backorders when Jordi and his crew are probably so busy trying to fill those backorders that I am sure they rarely got to see their families.

    As Jay pointed out, this is a DIY community, not WalMart where you can berate the staff.

  • @Brian

    You can see the responses already made to my post, it is push and shove. It is not communication.

    I think the people who care about the community, in occasions ought to voice their opinions in a strong manner specially when they feel they are not heard. 

    The stores for this community accept no responsibility for tech support, and send us to the community here, and we are told here we are not customers, and when we get flustered and voice an opinion personal atttacks and bullying commences.


  • @Brian:

    The documentation is there... It's called source code, diffs, changelogs, and checkin logs. I have been able to follow this project even though I haven't had the time to fly for months. Lots of sim time though. 

    It takes a lot more than just mouse skills to contribute to this project. 

  • @Dara, I am doing my best to get across lessons I have learned personally, and watched play out many times over the decades.  I am harsh, but accurate.  Call me jaded in general.  Despite what some people might think I have high hopes and expectations from this group.  That includes the business as well as the community.  I have faith that they can survive business infancy and be leaders in their segment.  Saying that, it is not easy, and times like these are can be make or break, both in capitol and public sentiment.

    Bullying, sycophantic behavior, strong or indecent language, are all elements that should not exist in a community forum.  I admit, I get a too sharp when I am attacked.  It's silly if you think about it.  Some guy or gal on the other side of the terminal/world as far as we care or know, maybe even inhaling a little too much model glue, needs to feel empowered on a community forum.  More power to him/her if that is what is fulfilling in their lives.  In a way I hate to dissuade it, people gotta have something.

  • DIY doesn't have customers, inherently and by definition.  Expecting to be a customer of a DIY project is basically "not getting it".  

    If you want to be a customer, fine, do that with a finished product, they are out there.  As far as I can tell, the DIY drones community has been working their asses off doing really hard stuff, to make things easier for people who are willing to also put in effort but can't focus their entire lives on this one project.  

    You can choose to participate or not, spend your money or not.  Expecting to be a CUSTOMER is a level of entitlement that is not warranted, nor should be. 

    It is in fact part of the mindset that is from the corporate model of consumerism, and so deeply habituated into our culture that it's not surprising that this is a big issue.  But part of the whole point of DIY is to get away from that and expand yourself beyond the comfortable consumer, at least when you're involved with DIY.  (I'm a very comfortable consumer of things I don't ever intend to build, like insurance or my next car).  

    I am deliberately not pointing this at any one person, but if it makes you angry, then sit back for a minute and think about why.  Do the most difficult thing and take a hard look at your own attitudes.  I do regularly, and I catch myself doing silly things too, but at least I catch it some of the time.  

    Happy skies people-


  • Hello

    @Brian Linger

    Brian I do not know you and do not know your motives, but Sgt Ric bullies and I was bullied by him a few days ago here. 

    The group needs more moderation to stop language like:

    > I would love to tell you and your sarcastic, whiney attitude to take a hike! 

    Past summer in Canada laws have been passed to stop bullying online and at work places. But this community allows for bully expressions.

    Therefore I no  longer post in this group, I feel ganging up against my person,in spite of the fact that I spent already $4000 purchasing goods, supporting the cause, following all the rules Chris Anderson sets which I believe are all justified. 

    My plans are to spend another $6000 on two ardu planes and I wonder: I am scared to EVEN talk here, is it wise to continue?

    Am I the only one, no! There are others who gave up long before me. 

    Now a barrage a bullying and personal attacks will follow making these statements PERSONAL. 

    I am not buddy buddy with anyone here, I want to acquire OPEN SOURCE techs from this group and to support by all means possible. 

    The community should allow criticism and objections by all means possible to grow, not to crush CUSTOMER's voices and concerns and promote the bullies by silent consent. 

    Please kindly stop the bullying of Sgt Rick.


  • Hmm, +1 for Sgt Rick.... I very much agree...

  • So Sgt. Ric.  From what I hear you are saying something along the lines of:

    If you were a man, you could make a direct statement of your feelings, instead of, not speaking for DIY, or at the very least relate your hate to my posts and opinions, not just bare childish insults. 

    Whether you like me or not, my comments though stiff, are designed for constructive criticism in a general field I have two decades of experience with.  I wish them luck, if I didn't care I wouldn't be so persistant.

    Whats your excuse?

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